Plane Crash in Egypt - 224 Dead

[HJ1an]

Hj1an said earlier that the main part of the stabilizers is behind the rear hinge. He assumed that the front would go up under the weight, if the jackscrew in the front failed. But weight is not as important as airflow. So the loose stabilizer would kind of follow the airflow.

Yes, but a back-heavy stabilizer would still point down in fast moving airflow. It might be slower moving down and not abrupt, but the net effect is the plane nosing down in an arc and going faster and faster rate. Of course that would not explain the abrupt cut off in the recorder as well. Also, as I previously said, I don't think the fuselage would break off from a horizontal-stab failure unless the plane is doing insane G's and very suddenly. So I think the stabilizer is only secondary to another initial problem.

[jwocky]

Since the rescue forces were most likely military and I know a little bit about their army, my guess, their fast way inside and to the boxes is called shape charge ... which means, there will be residue and there is a hell of discussion coming up when the lab results come back in some weeks.

[KL-666]

Finally some information based on sound investigation. Residue of an explosive device has been found by the Russians.

It would be interesting to know where it was found. Was it in the aft galley, blowing out the rear bulkhead and setting off the chain of events as discussed here? Or was it somewhere else, on top of a fuel tank, or not?

Or is Jwocky right and is it contamination of the Egyptian rescue crew blowing themselves an entry to the boxes. This seems the least likely. I am confident that the Russians can distinguish the different types of explosives.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

So ... how do you extinguish C4 from C4 exactly, Vincent? But however, if there was a bomb, they will also find some blast hole damage and maybe even some parts, then we know more. At the moment, it sounds awefully convenient that the owner nation always denying all responsibility for the plane maintenance comes up with "terrorist" again after the Paris attacks and based on test results from exclusively Russian labs (the jurisdiction is Egypt, so they are the first to get anything to a lab. Since they don't have so many labs, they sent symples in the past to the US for testing, but lately, the relationship is not so nice between Egypt and the US, so I don't know).
See, the claim is, it was a bomb, thereofre the debris field is so extended. Only the debris field is not really extended. Not like for example Lockerbie.

[HJ1an]

See, the claim is, it was a bomb, thereofre the debris field is so extended. Only the debris field is not really extended. Not like for example Lockerbie.

The Lockerbie incident was a bit different from the looks of this one. The bomb in Pan Am 747 was located at the front, and when that went off, it took off the front section clean off, which fell separately. The rear, minus the front, went immediately climb upwards into a loop and fell to the ground, tumbling and breaking off more parts from the extreme Gs as a result. The climb made more sense than what we saw here, which assuming the bomb took the tail off, the plane shouldn't be climbing as a result. So my best guess for that is that it took out the elevators by lodging a metal or debris into the up position (or possibly the blast itself bent the main structure at the elevator into a V shape, which in turn bent the elevators inwards and upwards, weakened the tail, put the plane into an uncontrollable climb, and as it came down the elevator and then tail, weakened by the blast, came off later on. Just a guess from me.

[MIG29pilot]

Putin's put a $55,000,000 reward on the heads of the terrorists.

[jwocky]

The Lockerbie debris field was so extended because the plane broke up in high altitude. That is what happens if planes break up up there, they spread all over the place. The Sinai debris field appears to me still too small, too discrete and too directional. But then, hey, what do I know?
And given Putin's behavioural patterns there is only two reasons for him to put out that kind of reward: Either his political rear is on the line or he is sure, he will never have to pay it.

[HJ1an]

"ISIS Says It Used This Soda Can to Take Down Russian Passenger Jet"
http://gawker.com/isis-says-it-used-this-soda-can-to-take-down-russian-pa-1743270780

Sounds about right to me. A can snuck into the galley section, or in a passenger's bag at the tail. Thoughts?

[KL-666]

Sure such can can have been here or there. Or not a can at all. We can not see the evidence, so the investigators will have to tell us.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

The can, the cable and the switch don't tell us much.

The can anyway, you can get all kinds of soda cans around the world and they are all the same. However,t he can was not cut open and taped again. TNT as mentioned in the article and a soda con with only a small hole on the top is not a good combination because usually TNT is solid at room temperatures. Even with one of the so-called plastiques, it would be some iffy job to get the explosive into the can through the small hole. Who knows, maybe they will change the story to C4 or Semtex next week?

Cables, well, not much to say about those cables ... and the same about the switch, you can get one of those probably in every car parts store or at a scrapyard. Only not usually with the red and the green light on the socket, that is ome kind of extra.

The igniter ... well, a very normal electrical pin igniter. The conic three ring design looks Russian or Chinese military to me.