United Kingdom + Ireland: Fall 2016 [November 5th and 6th]

[IAHM-COL]

Josh was not told not to ATC a given position. He told me he didn't want to be at london anymore, and I have no problem with that. I invited him for Talla (to control center for me in Scotland) and then Josh quit again. Again; I have no problem with that either...

Falcon: He is a pilot, not an ATC. So what he agrees or not here seems not a game changer, either. Currently, Josh as well, he is not listed as an ATC for this event. If Josh wants a position, that's fine. But it must be a position that's available. There's no 100 nm ranges or I take any pilot landing X or Y. That makes no sense, and it just calls for terrible caos in a place like london, where airports are within ten nm of each other.

ACI: last time we spoke on mumble he had perfect clarity of his airspace. He explained to me his position, and nailed. He did not mention having any sort of misunderstanding of his airspace.

Bravo1ATC: We'll need to talk to see what's available and determine what he can offer.

[DEADPOOL]

@SHM @IAHM-COL we are trying to have fun and forget about all the stupid crap from Vatsim and the other one Josh mentioned. MOST FG PILOTS DO NOT CARE FOR PROPER ATC AND JUST WANT TO FLY FOR FUN! All bringing this crap in will do is drive people away. Please ask us NEXT TIME THE FESTIVAL IS BEING HELD if we want professionalism or fun. And we will all decide together. I am in the same boat as Josh in regards to this being my last festival if this dose not change. I am aware that most of you would not care less but for the sake of those of you care about how many people show up, leave Vatsim in Vatsim and let THE PILOTS Decide what we want.

[IAHM-COL]

Never in the past have the festival done something like this. There will be more ATCs than Pilots I'm pretty sure.

I care to disagree.
Spain Festival: Elgaton ofered Control. I offered Barcelona Tower. Someone else offered Ground. We were 3ATC in just an small airspace. Coordination was seamless. Great fun.

Brazil/Argentina Festival: Elgaton offered Ground. I offered Tower for Buenos Aires. Coordination was seamless. Great fun.

Japan Festival: The airspaces of ACI/elgaton/and myself all were contiguous and all of us (3 of us) understood clearly our airspaces and where separation of traffic was our responsability. And accept it. As a consequence again, it was great fun.

In general, ATCing is a cooperative activity. There's not: <<this is my I airport I can control>>. Specifically, you can make your own game somewhere. Think Jomo, or as you said before, you were planning opening Schiphol? that's far enough of the festival area so you can see if that works for you...

I really hope 2017 festival I can control one airport. With maybe another controller as TWR/GND. Like it has been in the past. Otherwise, don't expect me to join.
Josh

There will be 2 festivals in 2017. Places to be determined after UK's. I don't need to expect you to join. You join if you want. You don't join if you don't want to.

Best,
IH-COL

[DEADPOOL]

@IAHM-COL I know that you think little of me, but that was an EXTREMELY LOW BLOW!!! I am now 100% certain that this is my last festival ever.

[IAHM-COL]

Hi Falcon

1. We are not using VATSIM. not at all. (IVAO shows us where the boundaries are. that's all)
2. the "crap" is about helping ATCs understand when a pilot is within their airspace, and when a pilot is in the other ATC airspace. So they can know who is their responsability and who is NOT their responsibilty. Regardless of whether it shows in your radar or not. It is the way to know when you hand off a pilot to other controler, leaving no doubt margin. It can only work in everyones favor.
Unles you want, as a pilot to have 3 or 4 ATCs telling you: Hey! Listen to me instead. I want to control you. Listen to me. and then before you realize you as a pilot have 3 or 4 different instructions. One tells you to descend. the other to turn and keep level. The other to go to VOR x, and the last one to contact him. As a pilot, how is that scenery any fun at all?

IH=COL

[IAHM-COL]

@IAHM-COL I know that you think little of me, but that was an EXTREMELY LOW BLOW!!! I am no 100% certain that this is my last festival ever.

Not such a thing.

I have great opinion on you, Falcon. and I have throw you no punch or blow.

All I am saying is that a pilot, you dont need to care much where the airspace of 3 or 4 ATCs boundary. All you care is to have only 1 ATC at any given time interacting with you. and when it's time to switch frequency, that your ATC tells you Specifically and Clearly whom to contact next. That's all.

ATC boundaries, pilots hand-offs, and who's who on each of those positions, those "administrative" decisions, are weighted by the people that will shoulder this work. And as such, as a pilot, such details are important to you, but you can't tell who or how. That's how, as a pilot, your disagreeing is not a game changer.

[DEADPOOL]

@IAHM-COL its the amount of people flying that I'm concerned about. With so many ATCs we won't have as many people flying. And with the UK being such a small place, pilots will be getting shouted at by atc about traffic advisory. We will also spend most of our time going from FG to mumble half of the time because of all the ATCs. I will have become inconvenient for the pilots. I am giving the festival one last shot, but if it's to complicated then I'm gone. And also, the ATCs we have on Mumble that have come over from Vatsim will most likely be full of them selves, but there are a few who are not. If you would like to discuss this further I will be on mumble at around 2 pm.

[IAHM-COL]

@2 I'm at work
Tomorrow around 8 AM our time I'll be there.

I don't know anything of VATSIM and I never been in VATSIM so there I am blind as a mole.
About number of pilots. Yeah! that's a concern of mine. Too many or too few and things gets either difficult or boring. But that's about what the festival is about. Having lots of fun, and enjoy the company of all the FG community in a fun event.
It's been great so fun. No remorse on my side.

About how realistic an ATC should be. In my opinion, the best ATCs are able to regulate how difficult or simple is their service depending on how skilled the pilot they are controlling is. If a pilot knows a lot, the ATC can throw more service at him/her. If a pilot knows little, then the best ATC will limit the pilot exposure, and limit ,per example to just vectors (heading/altitude/speed).

Also, in the festival we expect uncontrolled traffic.

It's all part of the experience


See you tomorrow,

IH-COL

[Octal450]

Never in the past have the festival done something like this. There will be more ATCs than Pilots I'm pretty sure.

I care to disagree.
Spain Festival: Elgaton ofered Control. I offered Barcelona Tower. Someone else offered Ground. We were 3ATC in just an small airspace. Coordination was seamless. Great fun.

Brazil/Argentina Festival: Elgaton offered Ground. I offered Tower for Buenos Aires. Coordination was seamless. Great fun.

Japan Festival: The airspaces of ACI/elgaton/and myself all were contiguous and all of us (3 of us) understood clearly our airspaces and where separation of traffic was our responsability. And accept it. As a consequence again, it was great fun.

In general, ATCing is a cooperative activity. There's not: <<this is my I airport I can control>>. Specifically, you can make your own game somewhere. Think Jomo, or as you said before, you were planning opening Schiphol? that's far enough of the festival area so you can see if that works for you...

I really hope 2017 festival I can control one airport. With maybe another controller as TWR/GND. Like it has been in the past. Otherwise, don't expect me to join.
Josh

There will be 2 festivals in 2017. Places to be determined after UK's. I don't need to expect you to join. You join if you want. You don't join if you don't want to.

Best,
IH-COL

@Israel
That festival was so different. You guys had an aiport to control. You were not following exact boundries and class charts.
This is like 20ATCs. Which is silly.
I fail to understand why you don't see the HUGE difference between this and the other festivals.

Josh

[Octal450]

Well then this will be my last Festival. The others were much much much more fun.

This will be more fun

@SHM
How many people would really update that?

I can volunteer to bring the new database,

I am upset because I was told I could not work the position *I was told I could*, and then strict VATSIM/IVAO procedures were enforced.

What position was that?

I hope that ATCs will know how to do all that. Lets see.

How many people will actually update it though?

I was told I could be EGKK APP/DEP. as in bring planes from CTR to the ILS, then handing off to TWR (ATC1337). Like it is in VATSIM. I flew to EGKK yesterday, and I contacted an APPR after center, he brought me to the ILS, and then over to TWR.

I was told I could only clear planes for takeoff and landing. Which is tower, therefore eliminating my position.

Josh