Free Flight, Free Speech

once again banned for defending myself and/or others.
Specifically on a pattern:

- helijah make a nice 3d with a yasim
- Somebody like Richard makes a great FDM in JSBsim that is very realistic, maybe 2-3 years of work to do so
- That person posts it on the forum
- helijah comes attacking how JSBsim is horrible and how its ruining his plane etc etc etc

I saw this happen when the Mirage-2000 has this merged, and now once again with Jaguar. And when called out on it, helijah blames it on people being full of themselves...

Naturally after defending my friends, I was swiftly banned by stuart (who has still not learned that censorship does not defuse a fight). So my question is.

in what world is is acceptable, to call people full of themselves, and ridiculous, and trash the hard work of others on a consistent and repeatable basis, but not ok to call someone out on it using the same words they themselves used? (full of themselves, ridiculous, etc)

I dis-agree on many things but you don't see me running peoples threads down constantly with my opinion. I say it maybe once if AT ALL, then I leave it be (unless its a thread specifically for the discussion of that)

So the drama...

Kind Regards,
josh

Oh it didn't quite happen like that....

He made a request that the folder name be changed so as it didn't over-write existing work...

You slapped him down, calling him names telling him how people had spent many hours working on a JSBsim flight model

He responded in kind, demanding what the flight model or how long it took to make have to do with the simple fact that it's overwriting existing work ?

Some of your points about YAsim and JSBsim were accurate.... so were his, but hardly relevant to the nub of the issue.

So in what world is it acceptable to overwrite existing work rather than place new work alongside existing ?
Would you like it, or would you prefer to be able to look at both and as official maintainer (of 300+ planes is a laugh) cherry pick the best of all work ?

Simon

You slapped him down, calling him names telling him how people had spent many hours working on a JSBsim flight model

I can recall 3 separate occasions where someone applied a JSBsim flight model into his 3D, where he slapped them down for "ruining the aircraft" and such, that is okay to do? How long should I tolerate such rude behavior? I should also point out that the words I used were pretty much identical to words he used in his previous "attacks" (of which I barely commented on if at all). If somebody slaps you continuously, would you not knock them out?

Do you want me to beg to him "please sir, may you PLEASE tolerate the 3 years of hard work on the jsbsim flight model?" when he is the one causing issues?

No work was being overwritten. Often in git, the name is not changed. Name changes could be done easily at any time, and should swamp/Richard want to put it in FGAddon, a simply find-replace command can be done in about 30 seconds (I did this recently). Both you and helijah are missing the point. Now of course reasonable people will replace less-realistic work with realistic, I've had some of my work replaced by more realistic a few times, and I've replaced other's with realistic a few times, all with consent and kind agreement between both parties. But we can't expect everyone to be reasonable, so clearly the name could just be in changed in the future.

However that isn't what happened. Helijah came into the thread without reason, baring down on people for using JSBsim. It happens repeatably - I would point you to the occasions by link, but as usual the FG Forum Moderators have purged it from existence, and I'm not aware of anyone making a archive.

So maybe I am a little harsh, but that is due to my dislike of hard work being crushed down.

Kind Regards,
Josh

PS: the old one hasn't been updated in 11 years or something. If I abandoned something 11 years ago, I wouldn't care if someone replaced it with a newer better one... but then again, not everyone thinks that way. This is open source and collaborative work. I learned that recently myself as I was too a control freak.

Octal450 wrote:
PS: the old one hasn't been updated in 11 years or something. If I abandoned something 11 years ago, I wouldn't care if someone replaced it with a newer better one... but then again, not everyone thinks that way.

Hey I didn't make the rules.... I don't like em..

But I and others who didn't like the status quo voiced our opinions in the rather mis-guided thought that other experienced content developers with some common sense would back us up... But people like you didn't, leaving us 'hanging out to dry' having to argue against 2, 3, 4 protagonists that rally around the usual suspects.

There's never going to be a ground swell of opinion against the status quo, soley because of the cowards who don't have the balls to stand up against these people in demanding a more fairer, respectful... dare I say democratic development environment.

On another issue... you've made it clear you opinions of this forum....so why post on it ?

Helijah, didn't slap anyone down over the use of JSBsim... he was welcoming of the work. YOU slapped him with the excuse that people had spent time on it and JSBsim being so superior to YAsim it was wrong of him to ask that the update didn't overwrite existing files on a USERS machine.

To me that is a reasonable request.... the shit storm you created around this request may well in your mind succeed in hiding this reasonable request.... but not from me.

Look I don't like the guy, I don't agree with his attitude or owning 300+ planes, but when I brought this up in the past on the forum, I don't remember you standing shoulder to shoulder with me or anyone else....

So my opinion, stop posting over there, come here and help make this forum a more active place and the repository the premier place to develop content.

Yes you'll have an argument or two here.... but at least you won't be stabbed in the back !
But it'll require you to grow a pair and not be always looking to have people like you.

Simon

Helijah, didn't slap anyone down over the use of JSBsim...

You haven't been reading... well at least you weren't' reading before it was purged in several threads. Helijah stated several times that the use of JSBsim FDM in his models was ruining them, making them unrealistic, and made a big scene about terrible it was. Last that happened with mirage2000. You can ask 5H1N0B1 if you doesn't believe me!

However this time I decided to reply and shoot it down before it became a threat, and thus the full affect of his hate wasn't yet realized.

you need to analyze the entire situation.

you've made it clear you opinions of this forum....so why post on it ?

Because I am pretty laid back about that stuff. I just post wherever there seems to be interest on that specific plane. There was never any interest here in the 2 planes I primarily work on so I stopped posting it here and just posted over there. If interest comes back here for that planes, I happily post it here.

Kind Regards,
josh

A shit jsbsim flight model is just that shit.... 90% are just that maybe even more.

Just because it has JSBsim on the label and not YAsim doesn't automatically make it better, that's his argument and I have to agree.

And I'm not interested in what he's written in the past, we can all bring an axe to grind to the party.... What's important is what he wrote on that topic and in it he did not slap down anyone initially for using JSBsim only later on did he object to the opinion that simply because it's JSBsim it's better.... arrogance !

this is what he wrote

Work on the dashboard and some really nice external elements.
The JSBSim flight model doesn't bring anything to see even is absolutely realistic for a twin-engine fighter.

But most importantly, you allow yourself to keep the same folder name so that your "work" overwrites the official "Jaguar" that I continue to maintain.

It would be judicious and respectful to choose "Jaguar-GR1" for your file name. Because the "Jaguar" folder is already in use.

if

The JSBSim flight model doesn't bring anything to see even is absolutely realistic for a twin-engine fighter.

Under no stretch of the imagination could this be described as a slap.... if we can't take a persons opinion then what's the point ?

But most importantly, you allow yourself to keep the same folder name so that your "work" overwrites the official "Jaguar" that I continue to maintain.

He's expressed his opinion politely.

It would be judicious and respectful to choose "Jaguar-GR1" for your file name. Because the "Jaguar" folder is already in use.

He's suggested a work around by renaming the folder.... which let's be honest would be both judicious and respectful

Remember English isn't his first language nor is it yours.... so some slack has to be given...

I say that even though I was judged by people for whome English isn't their first language, simply for using a popular cultural saying.

Lets also remember the topic was censored to save your face....

And now the usual syncophants can come in an rewrite what actually was written...

Helijah, there are two ways when you think a conflict due to the same folder name arises:
1) Politely point it out and ask whether the folder could be renamed
2) Saying that the new version is inferior and thus provoking a conflict. I have seen this behaviour in two cases now (Diamond DA40 and here).
Please use the first one in the future

[EDIT] Tone down wording

You missed a lot of his undertones.

Now this sentence:

The JSBSim flight model doesn't bring anything to see even is absolutely realistic for a twin-engine fighter.

This is of course his classic, JSBsim flight model doesn't bring anything to see, what he means is, its nothing realistic and his YAsim was better. It is usual same as he told many times to 5H1N0B1 for mirage, we are ruining the aircraft with JSBsim. Remember that he uses Google translate. He does not speak english. With combined use of things he says, you can start to derive what he REALLY means (and in fact, 5H1N0B1 who also french has confirmed this for me)

Just because it has JSBsim on the label and not YAsim doesn't automatically make it better, that's his argument and I have to agree.

As do I, but his logic is that because he could not build a realistic JSBsim, it CANNOT be realistic. He states this multiple times, arguing that YAsim "calculates it from geometry" (which is completely false)

Kind Regards,
Josh

Look, I'm a flight modeler..... I do nothing else...

I've tried to have a comparison of jsbsim vs yasim... even jsbsim vs jsbsim.... no one will have it.

No ones wants to discuss the merits of one flight model performance over the other, total prats who don't even do flight modeling voice their opinions in support of their favourite personality instead of being told to STFU.

I even tried to challenge people into modelling a sycamore seed as I thought it'd be neutral, it not being a plane.

And IF he doesn't see anything of value in the JSBsim flight model for this plane.... so what ?
He's entitled to his opinion,,,, but surely this flight model has been tested, there's going to be spreadsheets of test data to back up why the planes performance is close to the original plane....

But ultimately it's up to the people that fly it.... and I've seen unrealistic flight models preferred to more accurate ones, as they "feel" better to some armchair pilot who's only even spent a few minutes flying it but longer posting a review of how poor the flight model is.

So don't start a flame war over flight dynamics without some facts to back up why it's better..
Then I'll be stood shoulder to shoulder with you.

Simon