Free Flight, Free Speech

No. Lydiot. You aren't banned or censored. Lucky you. Because you enjoy playin' with the line of what is really sociable acceptable.
And yes, I am referring to your insisting calling people here Idiots. Whomever that maybe, gender, nationality, etc.

Lydiot wrote:Nice. See, from my perspective that idiot got just what she deserved. She couldn't take simple rejection on the other forum, started badmouthing me here instead, presumably because she felt I wouldn't respond - which is awfully convenient - and when I did, apparently that was too much.

Don't talk shit if you don't want to get the same dished back at you.

Did you delete the post where she called me a "jerk" yet? No, I didn't think so.

Pathetic.

And you do it again. You never showed contriction, or remorse. You edited it without apologizing or letting anyone know that you understand you acted in wrong do. Because, you don't think so. You think you are in your "free speech" rightful right of calling someone here and idiot. TWICE!

You may think is pathetic. I AGREE.

I did not delete any post. Not yours. Not hers. I did not edited with my hand any post. Not yours. Not hers. That was my compromise to you on neutrality. I expected you both to take a step back, and evaluate acceptable social interactions. You disappointed me: since I think you are incapable of understanding the difference of having a point, and just blatantly insult someone. I disappointed you because I took a side on favor of Simbambins posture.

Well... I say to you: "We are at an impasse."

Lydiot wrote:Wouldn't that be ironic.

Yes. It would be ironic for me, or JWocky to cut your disrespectful attitude out of here. I am holding to do it. And not because I side with you. It is because I think that you are the responsible one for the things you say and do. Not me.

And, in my point of view, it does not look any good on you as a person that you 1) not repent, and 2) repeat.

Lydiot wrote:I saw very little evidence of her having above average intelligence. If you actually read our exchange then that would be obvious to you. You probably didn't read it though. At least not thoroughly.

Yes, I agree you fail to see her intelligence. I am not saying she is Einstein. I am saying she is NOT and idiot. I am certain of that. I never ran an IQ test on her, and if I were, It would be confidential data.
I read the posts. And I sided with both of you on some of its contents. If you revise the thread you will notice that a few times I did told her you were having a few good points.

The thing that neither she or I ever understood is what is your business with trying to make one of the more fun events of FG, the festival, a place to call the intelligence of others into question, and a rather harsh and uncomfortable place.
As a matter of fact, just out of your attitude I had thought several times to just get my sorry self out of the festival mess. --after all, as you point out, it is NOT my event.

Certainly, some people seem to be quite into that. Calling for the festival to be a FG event, and thus being expected to be administered in the official forum. I am speaking, per example on you, elgaton, and Catalonic.
If that is how you guys feel. Fair enough. I can get myself out of it, and you can coordinate wherever officially you may want to.

If I am a welcome member of the organization team; then that coordination ought to happen in thejabberwocky.net. PERIOD.
(I am not flexible on that one)

No it isn't you dolt. I deleted it right after you told me to - nicely!

Well... Not that I remember you telling me you agreed to edit. So, last time I knew, I had to communicate to Simbambin you did not bulge to edit or apologize. She found it unacceptable, and left. That's that.

About IH-COL's neutrality

No. I am not neutral in this case.
You asked for neutrality, and I agreed with you that I won't be editing your post or hers. That's where it ends.

About my posture on the mess. I am 100% biased on favour of simbambin. and that's that.

1. you said she is an idiot. TWICE now. and I disagree with you.
2. she said "you are behaving like a jerk"
which, as she points out, does not imply saying "you are a jerk". It implies saying that your behaviour is unexpected on you, because that is how jerks behave like. And I agree with her.
3. All she did was asking for an apology for saying she needed to take a valium, and that she was an idiot. And I agree with her
4. You said that won't be happening. And I disagree with you.

And at least, I hoped, that in spite of you not being contrived, at least you wouldn't be repeating it. Bummer. Again I was wrong.

The lost is all mine

You said "Nice" that Simbambin left the team. Sure. The lost is all mine. As I said. I lost a great friend. An amazingly dedicated JAFVA pilot, and the only person I know (in years) with the patience to make a file with 500 new fixes for proper navigation, plus route manager files and stuff like that for the airports. All sick boring stuff that I reject doing -- but that NEEDs to be done. You said she is not intelligent, but you even reject the idea of learning how to do this simple mindless clicking task on the excuse that you don't know how to do it and you don't have time to do it.

See?

If you fume out of the project, it wouldn't be "nice" for me. It would be irrelevant.
Her leaving is as close to a tragedy for me, when it comes as the conclusion on a behavioural problem by yours

(and, no. Regardless on how much we disagree. I am not drunk. I honestly think so)

What would I preffer? That your contribution to the project becomes REAL. Real files coming into the development. Not real slapping on the face of anyone that moves.

I moved this topic out of the Japanese airports development

In case you want to keep using the time you claim not having, wasting my time in absurd rants. Feel free.

by simbambim » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:39 pm

Oh great! Now the people who were providing you with information to clear up your confusion are getting insulted. I'll make sure moderators deal with you, Lydiot.

This was before I had told her to take a Valium. It is also before I said anything insulting at all. Not only that, but she made statements about my position that just weren't true (i.e. lying). There was absolutely no reason for the above post.

Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:21 pm was for her to take a Valium. I also said I'd put her on ignore because clearly we can't talk to each other.

Both of those took place on FG.org, not here. None of that had anything to do with this forum.
I was responding on-topic before then. I did not make any insulting comments, and did not intend to insult anyone.
It is clear who started going down this path.

Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:53 pm, on this forum, she begins to lobby against me, making numerous negative statements about me. It's a post containing misrepresentations of my positions, regardless of me having told her to take a Valium.

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:03 am, on this forum, she writes another post again with the sole purpose of trying to exclude me from the decision making process. Her misrepresentation of what I have proposed can only mean one out of two things: a) she knowingly lies to the rest of you to get her way and get me excluded, or b) she really doesn't understand what people are saying in conversations.

THEN

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:14 am, on this forum, after having been accused of being insulting without having been (on the 16th), and after having seen an issue which WOULD have been dead had she just ignored me taken to this forum, with posts lobbying for my exclusion, I indeed called her an idiot. But I also pointed out that her being on ignore was the simple solution to the issue. She could have done exactly the same to me: Just ignored my posts like ignored hers and none of this would be an issue, but instead she went on a campaign, a vendetta apparently.



Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:10 am, FG.org, I edit out the offending bit about Valium, because the moderator asked me nicely.

Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:37 pm, this forum, Skyboat starts complaining via PM about my “idiot” comment, completely ignoring her having launched a virtual campaign to have me excluded.

Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:31 pm, IAHM-COL starts complaining about it, also via PM.

Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:44 pm I respond that if she edits her “jerk” comment I'll edit my “idiot” comment.

Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:48 pm FOUR MINUTES LATER I EDIT THE POST.

That's right *******: I edited both posts after having been asked to!

So,

- She accused me being “insulting”
- She said she would report me to the mods for no good reason (go back and check)
- She brought the topic to this forum
- She started campaigning to get me excluded from the process of the festival
- She misrepresented my views in many posts, both there and here
- She did resort to name-calling

Despite all of that, and despite that I didn't start that chain of events, I edited my posts to conform with the view that the comments shouldn't be public, to conform with the rules, and to just generally try to meet half ways. As far as I can see she was allowed to do all of the above, and even though I had made reasonable effort to meet half ways she did just one thing, which worked wonderfully well: Played the martyr.

Now, I didn't go crying to the moderators about her behavior. I didn't complain to the FG people that she was accusing me of being insulting, or that she would report me, because quite frankly I think it's a bit childish and shows an unrealistic sense of entitlement. Besides, I am fairly confident that I can explain my position on any given issue, and that disagreements on it is fine as long as people can communicate to the point of understanding each other's positions.

We can actually see examples of that. Elgaton (I think) made a very clear post after a long time of back and forth, and his post made sense. I don't recall questioning that post. Because it was clear. IAHM-COL (I think) made a very good post about mandating the festival being in Europe would conversely also ensure one festival per year would NOT be in Europe. A very good argument. Did I not agree that it was a good point? It took a long-ass time before that argument was brought forth however, and ALL I was after was for the arguments to be made in public so that people could talk about it. We did. Your arguments were concise and intelligent. I was fine with the outcome. If you call me an ass in the process I don't really care, as long as we can discuss things on-topic and be understood.

But what does matter to me is her campaigning to get me excluded. I don't care if she calls me an asshole while making a logical argument for why I shouldn't be included, but it's different if the post is just filled with personal-attacks and inaccuracies. And I felt that I had the right to reply with as much "on-topicness" as she deserved. Hence my comment that she was an idiot.

Now, let's think about this for a second;

- Essentially everything she did was virtually practically sanctioned, forgiven or ignored by you.
- On top of that you bring this shit back up, after weeks of us not talking about it.
- THEN you have the balls to accuse me of repeating myself. YOU are the ones bringing it up again, NOT me.

But that's not all, to top all of this off, as icing on the cake, to sweeten the deal, to [whatever] :

You start a whole thread dedicated to a personal-attack.

How incredibly hypocritical and small-minded of you.

I'm not sure if you're an ******* or just a big *******

Though one doesn't exclude the other.

And calling people ars***** 's is a VERY good way to get them on your side. Correct?
And Lydiot, to be honest, you were wrong from the beginning, but you refused to accept it. And then, you insulted her... she started to yell to moderators.... you said something angry... she said something angrier... at last, after calling her an idiot and all that s***, you decide, 'oh, I see, they are right.'
Both are not blameless, but YOU have most of the blame.

Come on guys, i can hardly get through this detailed stuff. Give eachother a break. I am sure Lydiot understands by now that insulting is not done, even if someone else supposedly does insult. I have come to know Lydiot as a reasonably discussing guy. Sure i find him sometimes too much on the detail. But then i tell him. Basically he is a good guy, so i see no need to make such a huge example of him now.

People learn, so we have to look at the future, not back.

Kind regards, Vincent

legoboyvdlp wrote:And calling people ars***** 's is a VERY good way to get them on your side. Correct?

No, it isn't. I never said it was. But if you read what he wrote you'll see - very clearly - that there is absolutely nothing that can be done to get him "on my side". And frankly I don't think I care.

legoboyvdlp wrote:And Lydiot, to be honest, you were wrong from the beginning,

When? Quote the exact post of mine at "the beginning" in which I said something that warranted the accusation of being insulting to the point of reporting me to the moderators.

legoboyvdlp wrote:And then, you insulted her... she started to yell to moderators.... you said something angry... she said something angrier... at last, after calling her an idiot and all that s***, you decide, 'oh, I see, they are right.'
Both are not blameless, but YOU have most of the blame.

Well, I think that's rubbish. Nobody told her to rein in her behavior, and as I mentioned in your thread, it's a problem when people are just running around with the assumption that they're entitled to say whatever they want to or about others (like accusing people of being insulting, running to the mods, calling people jerks, campaigning to get people excluded socially) without any repercussions whatsoever. As you put it yourself " it would make the world a much better place for a few spanks."

See? To some people it's who does what, not what is done, when and why.

KL-666 wrote:Come on guys, i can hardly get through this detailed stuff. Give eachother a break. I am sure Lydiot understands by now that insulting is not done, even if someone else supposedly does insult. I have come to know Lydiot as a reasonably discussing guy. Sure i find him sometimes too much on the detail. But then i tell him. Basically he is a good guy, so i see no need to make such a huge example of him now.

People learn, so we have to look at the future, not back.

Kind regards, Vincent

Yes, you and I disagree, but we managed to end our disagreement civilly in the 'god' thread. At least I think so, despite the temperature going up somewhat at times.

Like I said: If someone is going to start a personal-attack thread in my honor, I'll reserve the right to respond in it. I'm fine with leaving this alone, and all it takes is leaving it alone.

Lydiot wrote:You start a whole thread dedicated to a personal-attack.

How incredibly hypocritical and small-minded of you.

I'm not sure if you're an asshole or just a big idiot.

Though one doesn't exclude the other.

Facepalm

You miss the whole point of this thread Lydiot.

1) Would you mind quoting me directly from the post I open the thread with, what particular statement you consider a "personal attack"?

2) The whole point of the thread is to withdraw this discussion from the Japanese Airports thread where this arguments distract from doing the REAL work. But to provide an space for you to respond, and for me to inquire you to moderate yourself.

3) The central message of my post is that you call Simbambin an idiot for the second time. With an aggravating factor. She is no longer present in this forum (AFAIK), so now it also has the feeling of a back-stab.

4) I want to raise that to your attention and try to make you aware that is not acceptable behavior.

5) I was hoping that by reading this you would, if not apologize for the insult to the retiree member -which in my opinion is overdo three times now- at least you would withdraw such comment by opportunely editing :

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=253&start=20#p3815

(If you agree, I will appreciate you also PM about it, so I know you did it. Otherwise, I will be totally unaware and assume you did not as it happened already once)

6) but in contrast you decide to suggest that "you are not sure if I am an asshole or a big idiot". I wish there would be an alternative I like for me a bit better.

7) but on response to 6, I am going to ask you --not in category of moderator this one-- to please edit that line in respect to our friendship.

***

I am hoping you can reconsider your whole attitude Lydiot. In my book you do in fact go way to far: you cross the line. For years now, I have come to know you as a very reasonable, intelligent, fun to converse with, flight-gear friend. In fact, Simbambin mentioned a few times to just "ignore" you, which I categorically rejected, because I always consider you an integral part of our community, and one I have grown fond to fly around (like in the FANW and the festival), and I always considered you to be a fun guy to be around. An open minded one. But as you know, none of us join this community with the secret hope of being named assholes, idiots, neurotics, or similar.

Look at the title of this thread and recognize it for what it is. It is a call to you to fill the blank. And what you put there is all under your control. I hope I can feel confortable to add great adjectives, like a total "gentleman", a total "honorable man", a total "reasonable guy". Your call.

Lydiot wrote:
Both of those took place on FG.org, not here. .

...ETC

I would agree that the timeline you present is accurate to the extend of my knowledge.

So,

- She accused me being “insulting”
- She said she would report me to the mods for no good reason (go back and check)
- She brought the topic to this forum
- She started campaigning to get me excluded from the process of the festival
- She misrepresented my views in many posts, both there and here
- She did resort to name-calling


Despite all of that, and despite that I didn't start that chain of events, I edited my posts to conform with the view that the comments shouldn't be public, to conform with the rules, and to just generally try to meet half ways. As far as I can see she was allowed to do all of the above, and even though I had made reasonable effort to meet half ways she did just one thing, which worked wonderfully well: Played the martyr.

• <<She accused me being “insulting>> : Yes. She did. Unfortunately your response have been to a posteriori prove her right. That was your choice.
• <<- She said she would report me to the mods for no good reason (go back and check)>>. I must admit I agree with you on this one, for the Curtis' Forum, the heat made no sense at the beginning. In here thou, when you first joined, it took you 2 post to yell her the "Idiot" word. And when she reported you here, you were already at the wrong side of the line.
• <<- She brought the topic to this forum>>. Well that part is good. The benefit; we have you with us now
• <<- She started campaigning to get me excluded from the process of the festival>> Oh yes She did. And sadly. I totally disagreed with not listening to what you have to say. Elgaton backed you up big time as well. So: Where you find the need to go ballistic?
• <<- She misrepresented my views in many posts, both there and here>> Same as above
• <<- She did resort to name-calling>> Not sure where she name-called you or anyone. I may have missed this one

In fact, in spite you tell Lego that I don't side with you, I actually have. Mostly,.
If it comes to call anyone of us here an idiot, an asshole, or any other of those nice adjectives you keep in your lexicon -- Then there you don't have my agreement.

IH-COL

I hope it does stand for "darling".
What you fill the blank with is up to you. (as in: What would better describe your behavior?)

For now your behavior don't grant you the "darling" adjective. I hope you are aware of that.