Free Flight, Free Speech

About half a dozen posts from Mig29pilot were deleted from the "official" forum (right while he tried here to cause new flame wars on behalf of his masters) for touching subjects, the rulers over there were obviously uncomfortable with. Welcome to the Club, what you feel now over there is the gratefulness of dictators, once you let them grow in power.

They did the right thing. And you should do the same here. Hooliganism is not expression of opinion.

Although I come this from an entirely different perspective I do agree somewhat with Simbabim, but I can't imply that Israel and jWocky engaged in any more sort of 'hooliganism', any more than the Power Rangers at FG Forum have.

It's taken two to start a conflict there, and the shots across the bow were first fired by the admins and big developers at FG-Forum. Thorsten has at times been particularly fractious and borderline insulting.

I love the work he's done with the GSL shaders and such, but his PR etiquette needs polishing.

Thorsten is now planning on trying to kill FGMembers by getting the folks at GitHub to delete the repo. I'm not sure this is a really wise move

I think Simbambim meant Mig29pilot when he spoke about "Hooliganism". On the other hand, it is always very easy to press a button and get rid of a problem, never mind the consequences. If Mig29 posted the same style as here, it was a style that was annoying and aggressive, true. But he is a kid and cools down after a short time. And thus, we refused to do what he wished most: being banned here.
However, if he did it over there the same, we can assume his posts included also some attacks on leaders there and that poses the question why were his posts really deleted. We can't see the content anymore. If we get a poll running, we can vote to remove Mig29 from this otherwise illustrious Club of the Banned.

On the other subject of Thorsten still trying to hit FGMEMBERS ... well, if he would have anything, he could go to court. He has nothing. The maximum that can happen are that there has to be a discussion about two plane projects as far as I know. Those were re-licensed planes (CRJ-series from SkyOps and a 787 of unknown provenance, both came into FGMEMBNERS from FGADDON). In the case of the CRJs, SkyOps believed, he could limit the GPL license for the sue with FGADDON ... well, that is not how GPL works ... and claimed, we would have changed a license file. It came already changed from FGADDON. The other story is about a 787 which I understand was believed to be from Omega95 but GPL. Only it wasn't from Omega95 as we later heard. The story is Omega had his work originally under CC license. This other author and I would really need to look up his name, had a clone of it under GPL which appeared in FGADDON and consequently was also pulled into FGMEMBERS via this way.
So, there is a chance, GitHub will ignore Thorsten. If not, they will have to investigate from where those dubious planes came and they will find FGADDON which is not on GitHub. Now, how SVN will react on those news, nobody knows. But they are over there quite subscribed to the cause of Free Software, I hear and they will probably hear a lot in the process, that makes them thinking. So we have little reason to worry, but Thorsten's actions can draw a lot of unwanted attention to FGADDON and FG itself.

simbambim wrote:They did the right thing. And you should do the same here. Hooliganism is not expression of opinion.

I also agreed. Moderation is a powerful tool that calls for action sometimes. As an example, usage of profanity and inapropriate language, direct insults towards members (directly or indirectly), post of harrasing, racist, or discriminatory remarks (or actual annoying spam). I think we all agree on that. I personally disagree withthe "official" version that JWocky and I were removed from "Curtis' Forum" based on lack of understanding on the proper behaviors in a social context. Certainly, there is a vagueness on such statement, which is reinforced by the lack of cited evidence of such Hooligan-like attitudes.

The discourse of ideas and the argumentations certainly are sometimes complicated scenerios. Perspectives may differ. Conflicts of interest may arise, causing limitations in two or more parties to immediately achieve consensus. I disagree that it is the role of moderators to take a partial side upon what is wanted to be construe as "The truth" and take measurements to boicot the expression of arguments on either party. It is definitely not the role of the moderators to ensure that one of the points of view are chosen as legitimate. Historically, when this type of pseudo-moderation is applied to the discourse, there is a lack of a need for a better argumentation to clarify what is to be considered the "convenient" truth. This is where, in my perception, moderation in Curtis' Forum fails: there is a lack of impartiality, and a keen interest to make a such-certain discourse prevail. Not surprisingly, Stuart worked dually as moderator and writer of the draft of FGADDon manisfesto against FGMEMBERS.

MiG29 has not been moderated or banned in this forum (yet); and I personally, consider he has not crossed an uncrosseable line. He has his point of view, and he has done, to the best of his capacities, his effort to expose it here. He has come accross as uneducated and ill spoken -- same way I could have come across as uncompromising in Curtis' Forum. English is not my first language. MiG29 seems to be passionate and young. All things that need to be considered when exercising the complex and very delicate job of moderator.

Best
IH-COL

I must say, there are times when ESLs (english as a second language) type English better than EFLs.
Like, take ACI (ainuzzi9?, he is from rhode island types english very bad.
Of course he may be an immigrant.
Americans, especially <14s tend to be like that. Of course, I was reading since I was 3, so I know not to write In All Capitals or without any punctuation i come from great britain.

beware of Omega legoboy [I mean, do not be overcritical of our English skills!]

per example (I know Omega would've done a better English grading job, but)

legoboyvdlp wrote:I must say, there are times when ESLs (English as a second language ) persons type English better than EFLs (English as first language[?]) speakers. Like,Take ACI (ainuzzi99) per example; he is from Rhode Island, yet he types English very badly. Of course, he might be an immigrant. [Taking note that, using others as a lack of skills example is potentially offensive, and surely of bad manners ]

Americans, especially those younger than<14 years old, trend to be like that pay less attention to their writing style [?]. Of course, I was able to reading since I was 3 years old, so I know that I should not to write In all capitals, or without any punctuation. iI come from Great Britain.

(Grade; non-pass)

So my opinion is that many things count. Education level, age of the typist, grammar skills on the language of use, formality or informality of the character of the delivered message, amount of effort added to the post, intention, among many others. More importantly, It is clear that in an International community, leniency towards "proper" English is a courtesy (or Curtesy?) to be given.

IH-COL

I deliberately typed it bad, IAHM.

We could claim "typonese" is the official second forum language?

Ha! Good one, Jabberwocky.