The Witch Finder General

[IAHM-COL]

I got my hands on your 767 JWocky.


@bomber
I fully agree.
He made a really cool plane. He says it is not GPL. Then, it is not.
Why can't he release on whatever license he wants to? why can others do!?
Because it is way too cool?!
Can he fence it? Totally.
Do I like it...

Well... Well.. I asked him 3 times to make it Creative Commons so I can have it in FGMEMBERS-NONGPL, and he says: No. Keeps being "private" (which really means "All right resserved"). Bummer for me. But I can't but accept that it is his property if he puts it at that.

But I admit he's got a point.
He concerned Thorsten and others sooner or later would want to get their hands on it. And he was 100% right. When they started all their "performance" tests. That's where things were going.

[IAHM-COL]

He just acts like a spoiled child.

No. He doesn't. the source code of that plane is not GPL. He stated so. Minute one.

No! My plane is best!

Maybe it is. Maybe it is not. He is all, just making propaganda for his plane on his thread. Others do the same, each on their own little bench. What's the problem? Can you take someone saying: Here! this I do is great, try it out.

Do you know he allows you to download privately his aircraft and fly it for free? And you come and bite his hand? He GAVE you something for free. Take it or leave it.

You can't change it!

Yes. You can not. It is in the license. The license you accept when you donwload that plane is:
1) I will not change it
2) I will not redistribute it
3) I will only fly it

If you accept that download it and be happy. If not, then the plane does not exist for you. Period.
He says you can't change it. It's true. You legally, can't!!

No! I won't put up documentation of my code! Nobody bothered!

No bother about that either.
What makes you think he is Forced to do it?

Do you have the same qualms to use other "non GPL" "non Free" software that will not allow you to change it. that will not allow you to study. That will not allow you to redistribute it. That will not publish documentation on the source code, nor the source code?

That's great!

Oh wait. did you tell me you use Windows?
So... you treat Gates differently that Vitos... why?!

[legoboyvdlp]

Thank you for taking the time to answer.
But it is just his attitude which I find offputinng.
Same way as Horsten's attitude disinterests you in the SpaceShuttle.
Anyway, your points are well valid. Thank you.

[LesterBoffo]

Okay, so I am the only stupid who builds Lancasters and allow others to touch them ... now, that made my day

Now did you actually make the 3d art and textures? How about the FDM and other control xml's and Nasal, was it copy and pasted bits of other planes, or was it coded from scratch?

[jwocky]

The 3D was from Helijah as mentioned in authors. The FDM, the Nasal, all is from the scratch respectively from parts I build for other planes before (for example the FW-200). The AP for example is still a SYS7 which, aside as part of planes was also used by other plane developers for their work. Slowly, one by one, the old SYS7s are replaced by 8s and even now the first 9s. You find this family of APs (and yes, I rewrote practically all of it, but since it was based on the ideas of some FGUK developers, I left them in there, ideas should count for something) in basically all of my later planes and several other planes that used copied versions. So ... any more questions?

[IAHM-COL]

@Lego

Did not I just tell you that the game of Thorsten and Collaborators hostigating the Su15 had un-disclosed intent?

Now you can see what he was attempting.
Stuart, once again completely favoring Thorsten, locks the thread for Vitos to develop, present and promot such great aircraft.
Not suspicious, but clear as water:

Even Thorsten call for the lock with the following statement:

Vitos, I'm at a loss why you are here at all.

And sure enough, not long after than, the "Mod" abuses his power once again

http://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.p ... 40#p268262

I'm locking this topic as it has degenerated into an argument.

And with that action gives another victory to Thorsten hostilities, and delivers a loss to the Flightgear community that looses a beautiful aircraft not distributed anywhere else, but on Vitos link -- which in response he takes it down from the web.

Wouldn't have been a more benefitial approach to limit Thorsten away of interacting with Vitos, and letting him know it is not welcome he wrecks havoc everywhere? (no. Because HE IS welcomed to wreck havoc~!)


Using Lydiot's style: <<Classic>>

[legoboyvdlp]

So I see.
Well, it may be a great aircraft. But it isn't a great loss for he community over there to lose vitos.
But Mr. Renk, Mr. Buchannan, Mr. Edward, and Mr. Olson are getting up to rather too many tricks

[bomber]

Sorry but who gets to judge if it's a great loss to the community if FG contributors leave ?

Quite clearly in your opinion there's a scale of not a great loss and a great loss... so how does one become a great loss ?

Say the right words, belong on the right mailing list ?

How about developing things that push FG.... isn't that what we're losing ..

But I guess it doesn't matter as someone who can write paragraph after paragraph still remains.

[jwocky]

Pleeeeaaaaase!

This is the Free Speech Forum and Free Speech has led us in other threads in quite heated flame wars. Nevertheless, put before the choice, I prefer honesty before politeness and every day before the convenient political correct lie. So, okay, we have already some pretty rugged people here who stepped over the lines and I don't claim to be always the nicest guy myself.
So, Vito is definitively an acquired taste. But then, who cares? I mean, half of us here are acquired tastes at best already. So, if we can invite someone who sometimes get out the hammer but he is a good developer, why wouldn't we? To be here calls for little prerequisites. Reading and writing is helpful, yeah. So, he has his MiG-15 not in FGMEMBERS because he is afraid? Well, his fears are his problem, not really mine. Of course, at some point, someone will make another MiG-15 because his is not freely available, but then, that is a problem of his "marketing" to. Or he finds a way to promote his plane and people fly it despite the restrictions ... which then is his problem too. So the MiG-15 and its license status is really nothing that would prevent him, in my opinion, form joining us here. So I repeat my earlier suggestion that someone who has still access to Curtis forum invites him over here.

[IAHM-COL]

I fully agree with Bomber, Lego You should not say (and or judge) that loosing Vitos is not a great loss.

In my point of view, Mr. Thorsten is again painting us with a manipulated falsehood that Vitos should not be in FG because x or y reason. Reasons I really don't see.

Is it because he doesn't belong to development team? Do you? Should you leave the community because you don't?

Is it because he can work harder to move the project (as in work for them for free?) yet he does not? Well. He can. Not that he MUST. It is a volunteer effort and he is not a hire of them. He has made his point very clear before with the "Tom Sawyer White Fence" before. I agree with him on that.

Is it because he is not developing content? You ougta be kiddin' me. The Su-15 (not Mig-15 JWocky) is a beautiful piece of an aircraft made TO WORK WITHIN Flight-gear. So he does develop content. BUT -- on the other hand, it is perfectly acceptable to not develop content and be a regular user. That still not grant the question "Why are you here? (as in LEAVE PLEASE)

Is it because he criticizes the project (badmouth?) -- Do you really think FG is a golden uncriticizable cow? Why do they care. We request, propose. They deliver or not. They aren't our hires either. Vitos has brought up a series of good points about how uncoordinated the dev cores are. I was there, I saw, and I second him on such conclusions -- unfortunately. BUT recognizing a problem is the step 1 to address it and fix it -- unless you have Stuart to spit on your face everytime you try to bring an issue to their attention.

So, I really don't see a valid reason why Vitos "Should not be here" making an aircraft for us to fly and enjoy for Free in Flightgear. One of the most talented 3D people you get to find in this community, by the way, and one that knows systems (including Nasal) rather well.

He wants to be an independent? So what? you see other "independents" around that don't get the same aggressive "get the F.O. of here" attitude. Like Dave Culp (80% of what he's done is Creative Commons), Buck (He makes sure no-one can modify his planes as well (With CC-ND), and even delete links of his planes from his website -- just in case --), Lester (he is also an independent aircraft and content developer). The FGUK (they create a brand and thus they willingly not push their improvement anywhere else. Freq. they fork FGAddon Aircraft, made them better, and keep them branded and independent). The great Omega Hangar is another independent brand.

So, again, why can not Vitos have his Su15 being an independent Jewel? I just dont see any justifiable reason. Except that he is in Thorsten's Hit list, which means For Stuart: Vitos is the new Target.