WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH ALL THESE TERRIBLE FDMs that no-one finishes!

[IAHM-COL]

totally plausible this happening in FG.
real sad.

[SHM]

Thanks bomber.
That fits the puzzle

Looking forward to flying your beagle pup

[KL-666]

Fdm skills are quite different from other design skills. Therefore it would be good if people with different skills worked together, instead of having just one single plane developer/maintainer. As long as the plane developer has not paired with a good fdm developer yet, he can currently use aeromatic, which delivers a horrible flight model.

On the other forum i saw a fdm generator that should do a much better job than aeromatic, called XFLR5. It looks interesting, but i have no idea how good it is. Have a look at the wiki mentioned here:

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=30810&sid=212db32c9b3190d7675c2e1dc2d09d8d

Edit:
I see you have beaten me by 8 minutes with this Bomber Ow well, let's continue this on your new XFLR5 thread.

http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=839

Kind regards, Vincent

[swamp]

AeromatiC++ will not give you a perfect flight model off the bat and its not meant to but you can use some data to get an accurate flight model or you can use our other alternative and get something that just flies. Some want an accurate FDM and some couldn't care less if its like the thing flies like its on rails. Its fine if thats what they like but done right or even 3/4 right I think JSBsim gives more realistic flight characteristics. No I am not a fighter pilot but I do know, none fly like you are riding "Batman" at Six Flags. Either way making a good working FDM isn't going to happen in 30 minutes whether you use JSBsim or Yasim and right now that seems to be what we have to work with. As far as FDM's go in general I personally think you should fly it yourself and ask for the critique of others, after all its your name your putting on it. I would want others opinions but to not fly it would seem like, well, flying blind. This isn't to pick on anyone, its just my 2 cents. One other thing we should think about is if the model has even been officially released. Is it a WIP on someones personal github or still in dev only released in trunk for FGaddon? I say by all means if you see an old plane that hasn't been touched since 2009 etc. pick up where they left off and finish it. So many people bitch about incomplete old models..... Finish them.

[Octal450]

It ain't so easy

I'm just starting to get the hang of JSBsim from the A320Family

[bomber]

AeromatiC++ will not give you a perfect flight model off the bat and its not meant too

And that's the point of the beagle pup experiment.... to develop techniques that gets us closer to that ideal of it being correct 'out of the box' and not just accept the status quo of poorly finished flight models.

The excuse that only through having detailed wind tunnel testing data can we produce an accurate flight model has to be dispelled.... otherwise 95%+ of all planes are going to be piss poor.

Simon

[swamp]

You don't have to have completely accurate wind tunnel data to make it fly well, especially not on a prop plane. When you get into supersonic planes it gets a bit more complicated. I converted the YASIM C130 to JSBsim for one of our events it it flies way better than the old Yasim version and has the power it should. I don't think there is a magic bullet, you either put work into it and test it until its right or all we will have is crap. I don't mean to beat on Yasim I do have more hours in a Yasim plane than any other but how they got the Mirage to fly as well as it does.... I can't imagine. Its an FDM I don't dare try and wrap my head around. Not to make a well flying plane anyway. Its fine though for models that spend most of the time in autopilot though I suppose. If your not actually flying the plane by stick you probably won't notice much and thats fine, we all have our own preference.

[swamp]

Would the JA37 Vigen meet your requirements as a complex damage model?

[bomber]

To answer the first.... Yes we all have preferences.

Accepting a persons desire to have as realistic a flight model as possible shouldn't be too hard for some people to do.... but it seams it is.

Raising the bar of flight models shouldn't be seen negatively.

I'm not convinced that slow prop planes are easier to do than fast jets... they both present different problems.

Why shouldn't our wwi planes be modeled accurately. .... we have no wind tunnel data so modeling accurately without it is the challenge.

I think we're in agreement yet on what I don't quite know.

Simon

[bomber]

I say by all means if you see an old plane that hasn't been touched since 2009 etc. pick up where they left off and finish it. So many people bitch about incomplete old models..... Finish them.

But looking back I can tell you I don't agree with this.... because it's a cop out which refuses to address the creation and acceptance of a half finished flight model into FGaddon in the first place.

FGMEMBERS is a development environment in which to store and distribute your work.... FGADDON isn't this, as it's a place to distribute your finished work. Where the owner of the plane isn't the community but instead the original author, who we have to go cap in hand too, to ask for him to add any improvements made.

Flightgear has far too many low level flight models that are hi-jacked from other planes as placeholder flight models, a lot of them don't even have cockpits. Flightgear culture is about quantity and not quality and as long as it makes a nice screen shot the fact that everything else about it is bogus is neither here nor there.

Flightgear community has little respect for the efforts of the flight modeller, bestowing all it's kudos and merit on the external 3d modelers and the result of this is a lot of unfinished planes.

Changing this attitude such that it doesn't require for the plane to have been abandoned for 7 years before you're entitled to work on it without the risk of the external 3d modeller vetoing your improvements would be a great improvement in the Flight gear community.

Simon