ATCJomo

[Octal450]

OK, I understand now.

I try to be paitent when I control the festivals, but only if I am not overwhelmed with traffic.

[KL-666]

True, Jomo can speak loud at moments. For him it means adding urgency to the message. Yet some receivers interpret it as a form of aggression. So there is a sort of misinterpretation between the intention of the speaker, and the way some people experience it. Maybe a generation gap?

Urgency is often necessary with the low quality of many pilots visiting EDDF. Unless you like to see planes banging into each other all the time.

A classic at EDDF is planes landing on the center runway, which is exclusively used for take offs. Where these pilots get the ILS frequency from, i do not know. Jomo always adds the ILS frequency when assigning the left or right runway for landing. Yet these planes go nicely on the ILS for say runway 25C. In the mean time a plane has been lined up on 25C for take off. Looking back at the landing plane, Jomo sees the alarming situation of it almost landing on top of the lined up plane. So he alerts the landing pilot with urgency. But the pilot never responds anymore, being too busy enjoying watching his automatic landing i suppose. More calls from Jomo, more silence from the pilot, who neither in any way starts a go around. Then short before impact Jomo takes out the landing plane from his system, so he does not have to see a mess created at the airport he has taken responsibility for. After Jomo informed the pilot and others about the situation, suddenly the landing pilot can talk, and in what a way! Calling Jomo all sorts of nasty things.

True also, that an ATC can make mistakes as well as pilots. And yes, after many years experience Jomo can already see at an early stage who is going to mess up, and who not. Yet his experience is not unfallible. For some more experienced pilots his extensive coaching on final can seem a bit overdone. But if an ATC makes a mistake, you'll just have to live with the situation. The thing is, that you can not go usurping radio time with all sorts of lengthy explanations. Other pilots need to get instructions too. You will find the ATC cutting you short, when he has to say something to another pilot. For the oversensitive souls this may feel as aggression again, so they again think to be justified to start shouting ugly words.


In short:

1) There is a situation of misinterpreting intent between the sender (speaks with urgency) and the receiver (hears aggression)
2) Just do as instructed, without getting all emotional
3) If you can't, just come back another time with a working plane and pilot
4) Stealing radio time from other pilots with lengthy explanations, is really not kind to the others
5) And certainly none of this justifies shouting ugly words

It is really not that hard to be a well behaved pilot. Every ATC can vow for me that i follow up instructions without complaining a word, no matter how weird they seem to me. Like putting me on hold for a plane that takes ages to arrive, i could have landed three times in that time. Or sending me on a heading away from the airport. I just patiently wait for my next heading instruction. And if it never comes or i am flying at a mountain, i briefly inform ATC.

There are many more pilots who, like me, apply the ATC etiquette to the letter (only speak brief readbacks). Many of them enjoy flying at EDDF. And none of us enjoys being banged into by pilots who do not answer ATC or who fail to follow up instructions for whatever reason. And who next go berserk on the radio, which should be free for ATC instructions.

Edit:
With uncontrolled planes, the ignore button comes in handy. Now they can play their own game at EDDF, within their own realm undisturbed by us. And we can play our game undisturbed by them. Really no harm done. In fact using the ignore button is a very elegant solution to an immanent problem. Yet somehow some people manage to interpret that also as some form of aggression.

Kind regards, Vincent

[Lydiot]

if an ATC makes a mistake, you'll just have to live with the situation. The thing is, that you can not go usurping radio time with all sorts of lengthy explanations. Other pilots need to get instructions too. You will find the ATC cutting you short, when he has to say something to another pilot.

Sure, but then again, Jomo and everyone else "will just have to live with the situation" as well. "the situation" that people keep reacting to him the way they do because of the way he expresses himself.

And as for "lengthy explanations", sorry, but I disagree. Sometimes the explanations are very short, and Jomo's responses which threaten to ignore the pilot are far longer. If he's so busy then he shouldn't respond at all. If he has the time to write a "long" reply then who's really using up valuable "radio time"?

For the oversensitive souls this may feel as aggression again

How is this not aggression:

"WHO ALLOWED YOU ONTU RUNWAY!!!!!!!!!!! CAN YOU DO ANYTHING RIGHT?"
"BAW2334: You are lying -- That means you are neglected -- I have better things to do!"

?

Every ATC can vow for me that i follow up instructions without complaining a word, no matter how weird they seem to me. Like putting me on hold for a plane that takes ages to arrive, i could have landed three times in that time. Or sending me on a heading away from the airport. I just patiently wait for my next heading instruction. And if it never comes or i am flying at a mountain, i briefly inform ATC.

There are many more pilots who, like me, apply the ATC etiquette to the letter (only speak brief readbacks). Many of them enjoy flying at EDDF. And none of us enjoys being banged into by pilots who do not answer ATC or who fail to follow up instructions for whatever reason. And who next go berserk on the radio, which should be free for ATC instructions.

But again - I agree with the above - but it's missing the point. The point isn't that pilots should do the above, of course they should. The point is that this is all a game and people do this on their free time, and if you have someone like Jomo who acts as if he's always right - even when he's wrong - then people are going to get upset. And there's no reason for it. I've heard other ATCs make corrections to what they've said because they were wrong. No problem. And I've heard them adjust and I've heard them help and I've heard them be polite and patient.

And I agree with JWocky too. Some people are almost always 'nice', and some aren't. I'm not. JWocky said he isn't. I don't think Jomo is. I'm not going to get upset if someone thinks I'm annoying or rude because there's a chance they're right. But at the same time I'm also not going to be surprised then that people complain about Jomo considering how he's expressing himself.

Like I said, I absolutely agree with you that in and by itself a lot of people complaining about Jomo isn't proof that he's doing something wrong, but it is a reason to take a closer look at what he does (if you care about it) and see if maybe there's something to it. It would certainly be quite the coincidence if all these complaints, all of them, are without merit.

I think the larger better point to make is probably that this guy Jomo is just too old and too stubborn to ever change the way he does things, so it is what it is. Either we like it or we don't. Either we fly there or we don't. It's not going to change. So again I agree with those of you that are defending him that the best way is to just stay away, because nothing's gonna change. Unfortunately the other side of that coin is that we haven't seen fewer upset pilots there either it seems. Newbies go there, and some trolls go there. So that isn't 'changing' either.

Edit:
With uncontrolled planes, the ignore button comes in handy. Now they can play their own game at EDDF, within their own realm undisturbed by us. And we can play our game undisturbed by them. Really no harm done. In fact using the ignore button is a very elegant solution to an immanent problem. Yet somehow some people manage to interpret that also as some form of aggression.

Kind regards, Vincent

I agree 100%.

[KL-666]

There is i think the heart of the matter. Everybody has his idiosyncrasies. Some people are very sensitive to things, others do not even care about. Some feel they need to explain things lengthy, where others are as brief as possible. Some need to be very organized, where others think more laissez-faire. All these differences we got from differences in culture, upbringing, experiences in life, jobs, etc... I do not think that idiosyncrasies are specifically age related. They are just clear and present to me for everyone i know. So i easily think: Oh yes, that is just him, his way of doing. Not much i can do about it except let it be, or if it would irritate me, avoid the person.

Now Jomo also has some idiosyncrasies which can conflict with the ones other people have.

1) He does not realize that speaking loud can be interpreted as aggression.
2) He always wants to help out and teach people to the point that it can get too much, and can become felt as annoying by others. He indeed could be talking bit shorter at times on the radio. I believe he was a teacher once.

But i think that neither of these things can be expected to change any time soon. As much as some others do not change their interpretation of Jomo's idiosyncrasies. Such conflicting personalities will always get in trouble with each other. Still there are options to avoid such conflict.

1) Ignore your interpretation of the tone, and listen to the content
2) Do not fly there
3) If need be for your VA or something, put him on ignore. He will do the same with you, and you are both good to go.

Btw. "Defending him" is not exactly a correct description. "Bringing perspective onto a very one-sided story" would be more correct. Discussing from camps "for" or "against" does not contribute to a respectful dialog about a sensitive matter as discussing someone personally on a public forum. Often the one complaining just states that the idiosyncrasies of the other are all bad, forgetting about his own. It takes two to conflict, and not everybody conflicts with everybody. The way this topic started is a really bad example, which can only invite others to come up with more anecdotes contributing to nothing but a lynching party. Not any truth finding or solutions. I am glad the discussion took a more balanced and respectful road.

Kind regards, Vincent

[Lydiot]

Btw. "Defending him" is not exactly a correct description. "Bringing perspective onto a very one-sided story" would be more correct.

I don't really agree that the story is one-sided, but I do agree that "defending him" is probably not the best choice of words, and I also agree with the rest of what you wrote.

[KL-666]

Just another thing:

Recently listening to some rl atc audio, i noticed how often atc's exclaim "What are you doing?!". I never expected that so often, as i thought it is not very professional. But now i suppose Jomo is actually trying to be very realistic

Kind regards, Vincent

[oscar6662]

Lol Ive been listening to rl atc in LEBL_F_APP and never in my live have I heard: whhat r u doing.

The most thing Ive heard is: please repeat, from the pilot

[KL-666]

It is of no use to listen in on radio where the pilots do exactly as atc instructs. Only when they do different things than atc instructs, atc will exclaim such things. Like in this example of EVA trying to fly into the mountains at LA.

http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=967

Kind regards, Vincent

[oscar6662]

But thats not "often" that was just a BIG mistake from the pilot. Of course if u go and listen to rl comms of incidents and accidents u will hear that much more often thatn if u go with a radio near the airport.

[Octal450]

Flightsim pilots are dummer than real life pilots, obviously so you hear it more.