Why am I not banned yet??

[KL-666]

The one bullcrap after the other is oozing out of that other forum. I have never seen such a pile of it.

Re: How the project works

Postby bugman » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:15 pm

A normal fork is defined as contributing back to the project (the maintainers of the fork create merge requests, or equivalent, asking for certain changes to go back upstream). However FGMEMBERS is a hostile fork. To understand this, see https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic. ... 85#p285662, and the definition at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5490456 and http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/HostileFork.

It is also not just an attempt to out do and provide "better" FGAddon aircraft than the original upstream source (by fixing small problems, announcing it, but not contributing it back with the excuse that the fix is there to be backported by those interested), but also all of the venerable 3rd party hangars, and individual aircraft. In quite a number of cases, this is against the wishes of the aircraft authors, who nowadays try to hide their aircraft prior to release or use strange licencing to avoid being pre-announced and distributed by the FGMEMBERS group. This sometimes results in lost advertising revenue, as the FlightGear user using FGMEMBERS will no longer need to visit the upstream website.

Regards,
Edward

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267&p=293797#p293797

"A normal fork is defined as contributing back to the project". Never heard of that. LibreOffice is not obliged to contribute back to OpenOffice.

"aircraft authors, who nowadays try to hide their aircraft prior to release or use strange licencing to avoid being pre-announced and distributed by the FGMEMBERS group" Hmm, wonder how strange that licencing is. Anyway, if it is their hobby to do strange licenses, so be it. Actually the only one doing it is Thorsten AFAIK. So quite a bit stretching of reality is happening here.

"This sometimes results in lost advertising revenue, as the FlightGear user using FGMEMBERS will no longer need to visit the upstream website." Alright, if a few cents is your problem, we do not have a problem. We'll get to a 100% solution.

But in reality you do not want to talk, only reek havoc. You just made a post consisting of a 100% lies.

Vincent

[KL-666]

Hi D-ECHO,

Is this an answer to you quest?

D-ECHO, I appreciate your attempt to ask fair questions in the midst of all this craziness. I don't know if you will be successful in moving nearer the truth, but I get the sense your intentions are honorable. Good luck!

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267&p=293797#p293799

No, you get this acknowledgement and after that a load of unrelated bullcrap. Nice that he ends with good luck, because you will need it. He is not going to answer anything.

Kind regards, Vincent

[D-ECHO]

Yet I haven't asked any question

[D-ECHO]

Okay, so why don't we all try to settle this conflict instead of using time to invent new insults for the other side? For example by starting with merging aircraft changes from fgmembers back to fgaddon, both sides will profit from working side by side instead of against each other. Also, terragit entries, e.g. Japan could be submitted to terrasync, there is no reason why fgmembers shouldn't exist longer, but it would be fair to make changes made there available to everyone.
If you, the creators and maintainers of FGMEMBERS with all its substitudes, are willing to do this, I'm quite sure the maintainers of FGaddon would welcome it, because it adds a lot of improvements.

[SHM]

Okay, so why don't we all try to settle this conflict instead of using time to invent new insults for the other side? For example by starting with merging aircraft changes from fgmembers back to fgaddon, both sides will profit from working side by side instead of against each other.
If you, the creators and maintainers of FGMEMBERS with all its substitudes, are willing to do this, I'm quite sure the maintainers of FGaddon would welcome it, because it adds a lot of improvements.

Ok. Sounds like a good idea huh?

FGMembers did try to merge changes, they were the ones who handed down the offer.
See this thread : http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic ... =523#p8833

Also, terragit entries, e.g. Japan could be submitted to terrasync, there is no reason why fgmembers shouldn't exist longer, but it would be fair to make changes made there available to everyone.

Again guess who decided to not accept it
http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?t=520#p8769

[SHM]

Now lets see what the smurfs have to say.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160907065653/https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267&start=15#p293799

There is no interest by the fgmembers founders in contributing back to the mainline repository because this dilutes their goal of replacing the mainline repository.

A normal fork is defined as contributing back to the project (the maintainers of the fork create merge requests, or equivalent, asking for certain changes to go back upstream).

[KL-666]

Hi D-ECHO,

I must agree that any offer to merge planes into fgaddon has been met with a barrage of irrational arguments. Somehow i get the feeling they want to fend off the whole idea.

What is rational about the argument that they need to do quality control? It is what they want to do and they do it with every plane. So no difference here. But they use it as a difference argument.

Edit:
And you receive insults of having nasty motives, like deliberately designing things to fail. As i said before, thinking of motives is irrational and should be left to the housewives.

Kind regards, Vincent

[KL-666]

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15267&p=293861#p293857

Here Thorsten is basically saying: We only allow planes of trusted members. Newcomers do not stand a chance.

If you point that out to him, he'll say: No,no, a trusted member will do the quality control for the newcomer.

Then you say: Fine, then he can do it for the fgmembers planes too.

Where Thorsten will say: No, we are not going to hand out the keys to fgmembers.

Then the circle is round. And Thorsten is prepared to go endless times around with you in such circles, if you like. Really boring and a senseless waste of time.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

FGMEMBERs is also a platform for tema development. The KingAir-350 was a good example. There is single guy yelling all the time "mine mine mine". The results of this teamwork is free to take for everyone. Everyone also includes FGADDON. Israel even offered to send those planes to them. They refused. So, what shall we do? We can't force them to take those planes into FGADDON and their lies about we would not help the project don't change that they were the oens trying to censor plane devs (which forced the split) and then complained they don't get anything (because they refused to take what was offered).

Things are a bit more complex with TerraGIT. The use of TerraGIT also allows some extensions, resulting in a better scenery, namely those OSG-City things (I am not in sceneries, so for the details you have to ask a scenery expert), but bottom line is, TerraGIT supports more sophisticated technologies than TerraSync which is, why TerraSync simply can't go where TerraGIT is, in the future. Add to that the real TerraSync problem, the dependence on servers which are unreliable at this point, half of the flights under TS end up cancelled because the scenery is just not there. So, while the whole content in TerraGIT is free to take, and it was offered to send the changes to TS as well, TS just can't. They are, as organization, already in trouble if maybe 10 airports change per year. Not even talking their technical woes. 10 airports ... our scenery developers can do ten airports on a quiet afternoon ... and with TerraGIT, their work is available to all users the day after. With TerraSync, it will take at least 3 months.

So, bottom line here is: The planes, FGADDON can take whenever they want, they are free. They can check whether they are conform to their "quality standards" as in "not made by authors whose names start with I, J or B", "No livery with FGMEMBERs mentiontioned", '"no author copyrights mentioned by any author who ever looked crooked at Thorsten or Curtis", and add them or not, their choice.
For the scenery, they have to get down from their high horse and bring their system, TerraSync, back to a workable state and include the mininmum of state of the art, then they can get all scenery freely from TerraGit.
The ball is in their half, it always was. But they couldn't pick it up because they thought, they would lose face. Thus, they feel still forced to lie about what really happened.

[bomber]

This is the problem I'm facing....

I've no desire to learn SVN or GIT, don't anyone EVER try and tell me it's simple or what not.... I'm just not interested.

My hobby is about making flight models... that means modifications to a couple of files and these will only ever be handed over once I've completed the updates.... not as an interim release.... ok very rarely as an interim release but even then only privately to interested parties/team members.

If you take the ASK-13 as an example... I updated the files and posted them up for download... I notified FGMEMBERS and Flightgear that the new flight models could be downloaded...

Someone in FGMEMBERS added those files to the ask-13 repository, no one did from FGaddon.

I don't have the time or inclination to learn the commands of SVN or Git, to be used once every 6 months or so... I make my updates available to all parties, if FGaddon wishes to distribute it, all fine and good... but me not learning SVN or Git does not make me hostile.... it just means I've far better things to do with my time.

If there's no dedicated admin team for your repro, then that's your problem and not mine.

FGaddon is attempting to put the cart before the horse, I don't have to do anything.... I deliver a product, you can either distribute it in your system or not... your choice.