Pie eyed opinion

[D-ECHO]

So you're saying that arguments are never started by you (KL, Israel, Bomber, etc.) and are always started by Curt, Thorsten, Bugman and the other moderators. That's r.........

Example..... I've had this forum name since way before 9/11 yet I don't remember you calling Thorsten to book when he had a go at me for it.

Now that's what I don't understand. You have a forum name bomber. What the association to 9/11 is I'm understanding but what has that to do with Thorsten and a book? (nice object, btw )

[D-ECHO]

And the reason why I'm more often posting critism here than on the other forum is that I see much more often things here that I don't agree with AND that don't have already a comment in them saying exactly what I want to say.

[IAHM-COL]

consuming much time and consuming ideas not coming to the user in the end.

Any user is free to benefit from the output of the FGMEMBERS' projects.
It's all there, in the open, and opensourced.

How are these ideas not coming to the user in the end?

[KL-666]

What the association to 9/11 is I'm understanding but what has that to do with Thorsten and a book?

Look here D-echo, if you like to make uninformed statements by playing the ignorant fool asking such questions, that is all your business. But your so called "criticism" is really nothing more than uninformed nonsense, bordering on word twisting, which is a very bad habit you take here from the other forum.

Let me have a look at the critic D-echo at the other forum.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30648&p=296559#p296559

You are not making yourself much credible here with your bahaviour.

And btw, changing your words in a previous post is a rather coward and failing action. If you were a man, you would have apologized fair and square to SHM.

Kind regards, Vincent

[D-ECHO]

Why should I critiize an opinion I also have....
And I'm not playing the ignorant fool I am just not understanding it... I am never trying to twist anyone's words and I'd highly appreciate if people CORRECT me when I'm understanding something wrongly instead of....well, you know.
And btw, I've changed my words (while keeping the old ones, to make it comprehensible for everyone) because I saw it was misinterpreated and to make it more clear, if you have something against making words clear, well...
And by consuming things I mean that they don't end up in a way users can get them easily (without having to find them, somehow). I didn't say it's FGMEMBER's fault that e.g. the aircraft from FGMEMBERS don't end up easily newbie-accesible in fgaddon -> easily installable from within flightgear.

[KL-666]

I'd highly appreciate if people CORRECT me when I'm understanding something wrongly instead of....well, you know

Sorry D-echo, you are understanding about everything wrongly. And when being corrected you come up with even more wrong understandings. I have had those futile discussions with you before, and i pass for future ones, if you do not mind.

Kind regards, Vincent

[D-ECHO]

I think the only problem is misunderstanding.
You seem to think I am kind of hating you and the people at this forum and interpret every statement I make as fully contra you and meant badly.
At the same time I don't always understand what you say mostly because of formulations that are two "round-the-edge" for me.

[IAHM-COL]

fundamentally we disagree.

You are saying that downloading or finding an aircraft from FGMEMBERS is too hard for users(?) or newbie users(?)

I think it is a rather simple task, and we are willing to get any newbie unstuck and get the material, kindly and supportively.

You don't get FGADDon content "within" flightgear. That is a misconception. You get whatever the "catalog" distributes, which typically is some snapshot of some FGADDon content, or other catalogs available around. (which contrastingly are rather obscure)

FGMEMBERS could create such catalog. I dont deem that important, but if anyone wants to create one, fine by me
We list all our aircrafts in a rather simple format on our wiki:

https://github.com/FGMEMBERS/wiki/wiki/ ... -Available
https://github.com/FGMEMBERS/wiki/wiki/ ... -Available

So, in my opinion, the "it is too hard to get the FGMEMBERS aircraft" is a propaganda line. And a cheap one at that (i.e. not true at all).

The true is that a big misinformation effort exist on the "core" community, to prevent people to know howto and where to look for FGMEMBERS content. In fact, calling FGMEMBERS "FGM" is one of such efforts. (just google FGMEMBERS and see the results. Google FGM and see the results).

So, off course, if you help a new user saying: Get aircrafts from FGMEMBERS there is a lot, most people figure out really fast how to do it. Others ask a quick question. 99% of the time, the problem is solved by saying: remove the "-master" from the unzipped file.

Don't get me wrong. There are many aspects of FG that are not user friendly. That almost seem to require a computer class at the College level to just get going. Getting aircrafts from FGMEMBERS? not one of them

Finally, as a matter of fact, FGMEMBERS is not the official aircraft repository for FlightGear, but I dare saying is the DeFacto repository for users (new and not new) to get access to the most updated and most comprehensive content.

So, yes. We differ on that particular opinion.

[D-ECHO]

Yep, there are some things I didn't know and that's what I mean by correcting me if I'm wrong. Humans can never know everything. There are some points where I'd differ in my opinion, but I don't have enough time know to write a post as long as yours
Btw, nope it's not propaganda, it's simply thoughts coming only and simply from my little brain

[bomber]

The problem with Thorstens latest pie chart is that it explains why FG has such a low team working ethos.

He see's little to no value in communication within the community as it's a direct drain on implementation time.

Whereas I'm different.... I know for a fact that 90% of my time is me talking to myself about the design problems I'm facing and how to solve them.... the implementing of the solutions once I've determined them is matter of minutes...

I then review the results and argue with myself if they're good enough, if they're fit for purpose, if they meet my objective or even could i do it better more elegantly, and then I rewrite.

Now I'd love to be able to use the forum as a sounding board, to get others opinions or maybe even to collaborate with others solving similar problems, but every time I've tried Thorsten has gone out of his way (in topics that he's no practical skill in, just academic knowledge) to stymie conversation..

People like D-echo and Lester by refusing to stand up against it give tacit approval for these actions and leave me with no choice but to have to argue my corner... and then they come out with comments like "you're just a person that trolls the forum seeking arguments"..... Trust me I'm not, I like only to post in the flight model forum about flight modeling and unfortunately for others in opposition to bullying wherever I see it.

If Thorsten, Horray, Curt and others concentrated more on coding than on telling people how Flightgear should be run, and in what direction it must go in the forum itself would be a lot healthier.