The End of Free Speech? Turn to the Community.

[valery]

P.S. And yes, you can look up books on Amazon, you can look up "Killing Season" for which I worked as Profiler on A&E. So I have really no need to tell you some wild stories, I am real. And I put a lot of work in my passions, which is one of the reasons, I can't afford this kind of nonsensical time-waste anymore and won't.

Wow, seem to be so famous, truly impressed. Like I said to you before, open a blog, it's a better way to talk about yourself. I'm, I'm, I'm ..

Valery would feel better if Bomber would had got what he wanted, more control over users like you. I don't know.

) no comment, a bit paranoid ?

However, we, mainly David aka SkyBoat, is working on a draft how to handle this kind of troubles

What troubles ? Your troubles ? Don't feed the troll, the golden rule, and all goes well. Passion vs Power/Rules, 2cd golden rule.

I can't afford this kind of nonsensical time-waste anymore and won't.

Yep, finally a thing having a meaning.
So I.

[jwocky]

Nice trick to rip what I said about books and TV out of context. The point was, that Bomber defended libel against me and that this, given my rather non-hidden position, is a problem for me. Which funny thing sees everybody as a problem when the same rules suddenly hit Bomber. Which in essence show the hypocrisy. And the push to control the users here more came from Bomber, not from me, so you maybe want to apologize for trying the oldest propaganda trick in the book?

The second thing is, you talk about passion. Well, yeah, we talk when you have done ten planes. Twenty, thirty, forty. What I did, and pretty early on, was making botched planes flyable. They are not perfect, true. What I also did was work on the FDMs of other people's planes. That I, unlike Bomber, forgot sometimes to write a copyright note in it ... shhh, old problem ... it's GPL anyway, so what. In January, I spend most of my FG time with the Ruslan (I still want to get back there), in February, it was a little 737-800 and more work through the sources to figure out how to use the hardware better ... speaking of techniques like adding functionally on a launcher level, options to put maybe Canvas in a worker thread. Experimental stuff. I don't this year much of a result because those are long and iffy processes. Anyway, in March, I hope to get a little time to play around on the Antonov again.
The fact, that I don't send every time, I do a little thing, a post on the forum nor that I send an email to Valery, who always thinks, he needs to be informed or it doesn't happen, doesn't mean it actually doesn't happen.

Now, passion beats trolls? Well, not necessarily and I am not willing to hand over this forum or the community behind it to the trolls. I am not willing to let the baby troll (greetings to Oscar) trying to pick on the problems of others. I am just not willing. When this started, we had an idea, call it a vision. Most of the time it worked for everybody here. Now we hit hard times because one troll attracted another, attracted another and now attracted obviously yet another. We could have solved that quite and hard, just kick them. However, that was, and I admit to that, against the principles, I set forth when I started this. In so far, some people far greater as persons than you or I, Val, put me there on a leash. I am still not entirely happy because as Bomber's and now your twisted posts show, it is hard to treat someone reasonable who rips lines out of context to get off on the attack. Great ideals obviously don't work if you have some bottom sediment of trolls. Which leads us back to the situation, that the only thing that beats trolls is a big hammer. Now, I warned you, Bomber serves only Bomber and will leave you behind to pick up the tab. Seems, it just happened. Bomber understood the warning, leaned back and waits that you cross the lines and I establish an example on you. I refused yet ... of course ... the more often you tell me, I can only be the bad guy, regardless what I do, the lesser grow my inhibitions to say "well ... he will anyway say, I'm the bad guy, so get over with it"

Now, I have a lot to do, outside of FG. So, for today, I withdraw and let you think. Honestly, even I like tinkering on plane simulations better, there are some things, I consider more important in my life. I don't expect you to understand that, because you obviously didn't look up what for example the Killing Season was about. However, tomorrow, probably early in the morning, I will look into the forum again. Then I will probably find another post about how bad I am from a guy, who knows neither about the history here nor about how this all grew. A guy who spent posts and posts with long wish lists what he would like to have changed on FG (which is actually also a form of participation) but then rather nuked up the forum instead of making things happen. And here I will sit and wonder, are the ideals on which I founded this board worth the trouble or shall I just clean out the list of some of the more disagreeable characters here. Because whether I let it go or not, trolls like you or bomber obviously will always claim, I am the bad guy. And then behaving really like a bad guy becomes really intriguing, don't you think?

[Falcon]

Peter I will have to agree with you here on your second to last paragraph. Bomber will forever see you and your supporters as evil. (I will always support any of your decisions, question some, maybe help evolve them if I can, but none the less support them) Here is (in what I can gather) the list of bombers minions from the current thread: oskar6662, SHM(unfortunately, maybe just a long friendship between the two, being loyal to each other, but none the less, loyal (and for that you should be commemorated.)), Lydiot, and now Valery. These people, (hopefully we can save a few, not optimistic about oskar or lydiot, but I am about SHM and Valery) will see the error of their ways in defending the radicals on this forum. Bomber is effectively an agent from the Curt forum sent over here to undermine everything that we have tried to build up. They are accomplishing everything they have set out to do and if we don't stop them, then we are no better than them.

[IAHM-COL]

haha Falcon... that's quite some "conspiracy theory level" talk right there.

I presume neither bomber nor anyone here has been shipped as a "Wooden" horse to us.



IAHM-COL

[oscar6662]

Nice trick to put me names BUT just in case you forgot a part of being a dick, a troll, a minion... my name is OSCAR!(May be not, who knows). The point was, that Jwocky and his minions* defended and attacked with libel against me and that this, given my troll face and it's a problem for me.
"The second thing is, you talk about passion. Well, yeah, we talk when you have done ten planes. Twenty, thirty, forty. ...(And a little biography)"
OK so if he has done cool things with passion... , NO it's not enough?¿
if thats what you mean:
" From your post i sense that you rather want a meritocracy, in which the voice of people who contribute "more" counts for more./"we talk when you ...""

"I am not willing to let the baby troll (greetings to Oscar)"
greetings to you boss! (thumbs up)
"Now we hit hard times because one troll attracted another, attracted another and now attracted obviously yet another."
And it will keep growing the "trolls/minions"... If you continue like that.

"and now your twisted posts show"
I think you're twisting the non-twisted.

"Then I will probably find another post about how bad I am from a guy"
You're not the only one

"And here I will sit and wonder, are the ideals on which I founded this board worth the trouble or shall I just clean out the list of some of the more disagreeable characters here. Because whether I let it go or not, trolls like you or bomber obviously will always claim, I am the bad guy. And then behaving really like a bad guy becomes really intriguing, don't you think?"
This one is interesting, and the answer is simple: Just get som big fat and reasonable arguments why you and not us are right.

[KL-666]

Look here Oscar, i do want to help you with a serious complaint about libel. but your words were a bit gibberish by now. Libel is a very specific offense of which you need to make clear what you exactly mean. Also it is important to state who did what. Just saying minions did it, is not going to help. Also you end with "why you and not us are right". Who are the "us"?

Effectively you are asking me to look into a case of libel which is not explained in any way, committed by many minions to many "us". Do you understand that you are asking for the impossible?

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

Well, the nice thing about a forum where never anything is deleted is, that everything still exists. So you little attack raids on It0uchpods are still there, some of the PMs sent around about your trolling and bullying on Mumble, it's all still there, Oscar, so your history as baby troll is well documented.

And yes, if I continue to treat people like you the soft way, always hoping, you come to your senses and grow up, there will be obviously more like you. And there will be more who get sucked into the web of lies and twists spread by people like Bomber because they don't know about the history of this all, just like Val.
Here is my problem: I am not like Curtis and I am not like Adolf Hitler. See, Val came here because he was with his questions treated back over at Curtis' forum. Here, he got obviously help from Bomber. Which is a great thing and now it makes him feel loyal to Bomber. Now, of course, if those, who got help from Israel or from me or (in other non-technical matters) from David would line up here, there would be many many more, but neither of us had ever this "I gave you an answer, now you owe me policy".
Anyway, if Bomber (who has given his intentions to destroy this forum in written form already and, as you can read in other posts, anyway is only here till he can get more foothold in Outterra) succeeds, where does someone like Bomber go. We know, Oscar will not found a new forum. We know, Lydiot or Bomber won't. They argue, they could, at any time, but they are still here instead of running their own forum. Why? Because they can't really.

See, they, including you, have hate, recklessness and selfishness. I on the other hand have this stupid idea to bring this community so far forward, that in a few years, we have a working system to elect moderators, maybe even admins, board members, or what names they will bear by them. I have this dream that in some years, FG time for me means, I discuss with Israel the next model for the next plane to build or get one of those "tourist tours" David led over the Northwest. But most important, if I, as a consequence of working too much and health problems fall accidentally dead from this desk chair, this place remains as somewhere, someone like Val can go with his questions, someone like Joshua can go to tinker together with others on planes (or helicopters, I never really got those flying coffee grinders).
Yeah, I know, for you, this is not so important, Fine. For some others it is. Maybe my idea to hand this over step by step to the community is stupid, maybe it is overly idealistic, maybe it is overly optimistic, but then, this was once built as a virtual space where people can be overly idealistic without being eaten by the trolls. Maybe, those ideas make some people nervous, I know Bomber's first line after becoming a mod was a push for more control over the members and I know, regardless what he saw from me in real actions, he will never believe that anybody would abandon a position of power ... because he never would. Freedom can actually scare people and thus, they sometimes go really really bad. On the other hand, freedom, everywhere and on every level, comes always with a price. Freedom doesn't defend itself. Which means translated, if things go out of control and if nice doesn't work with the trolls, I will press some big buttons.

J.

P.S. and if you try next time to rip lines out of context to troll, make sure, the original post is at least two pages past or people look it up. The thing about ten, twenty, thirty planes was in response to Val's accusation I wouldn't have done enough. So, everybody who can read sees, that you are intentionally try a twist of the argument here instead of putting in something of substance.

[Falcon]

+1 Peter.

[Lydiot]

We know, Oscar will not found a new forum. We know, Lydiot or Bomber won't. They argue, they could, at any time, but they are still here instead of running their own forum. Why? Because they can't really.

See, they, including you, have hate, recklessness and selfishness. I on the other hand have this stupid idea to bring this community so far forward, that in a few years, we have a working system to elect moderators, maybe even admins, board members, or what names they will bear by them.

Last time I responded to you you had called me a clown. Now it's that I "have hate, recklessness and selfishness".

So again; it really seems that when you say you want a truce, or you want others to behave and not personally attack others, what you really want is for you yourself to have the ability to spread exactly the kind of hate you say others have, and attack others even though they haven't done it to you - even after you call for a truce.

The hypocrisy is astounding.

[Falcon]

Just keep digging Lydiot. Just keeeeeeep ooooonnnn digging. Peter will have enough eventually, and I already have. This is just like watching a train wreck in slow-motion. The slow implosion to the awesome explosion (if impact is hard enough for modern locos, the immediate fireball if a steam) of anger from the opposing side from when they get stopped cold. The explosion is where we are at right now. Bomber is to astonished to see that we have had enough of him and are finally starting to fight back. And to the people who think this is harsh, you can check back into my previous posts and see that I have, in the past, offered to resolve misunderstandings between myself and other users, like bomber and Lydiot, via PM so that we can avoid conflicts like this. They have, of course, refused to do so and as a result, this has happened. This, explosion, if you will, is the result of that. I tried to stop things like this preemptively. So, to finish my analogy, The firefighters, the site admins and global moderators, are now here to try and extinguish the fire that the explosion has caused, and are also left to pick up the pieces of the train and take them to be recycled, and if they are too damaged, throw them away.