As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

[KL-666]

Here is logically the best, because here everyone can participate, and on the other forum eveyone minus three.

Kind regards, Vincent

[IAHM-COL]

Makes you so sad???

A decision was made between a handful of people rather than the larger community. I criticize that other people didn't get to give input on that. Your reply is I can give input. I predict the input I will give will be "denied", I give input, it gets "denied", and you're "sad"? It was completely predictable. Stop being disingenuous about it. I get the point you kids are trying to put forth, I just don't agree with it. But why would I give any input when you guys could just override it without any consideration, or because you had already made a decision.

Don't like this division in the community? Don't divide it further. Because that's what you're doing.

I frickin' stood up against what I thought was unnecessary banning. I think this path you guys are walking down is beyond ironic.

Have fun with it....

I can see you are frankly strong in your position that Curtis' Forum is the only logical place to host this poll.

I had spent quite lots of today trying to understand you, and the reasoning behind your input, and your fear that the community is being split or that the Event is being stolen. Certainly I can delve it in my mind.

It seems to me you will be unable to compromise on this one. So I am thinking a potential solution to this.

Once we are certain of the total list of candidate positions proposed both in thejabberwocky.net and Curtis' Forum, the poll maybe made on Curtis' Forum instead. No duplication existing in thejabberwocky.net. The poll running for exactly 15 days, allowing all community members (able to), to cast their vote in the Curtis' forum for their preferred next location. At the end of the 15 days, the poll will close in Curtis' forum and the results been frozen will be revealed.

BUT
IH-COL, Jabberwocky, and Skyboat, we had not casted our preferences yet. We would be allowed to meet, weight in the situation, and use our three vote counts to add them up into the final Curtis' Forum poll results. We are allowed to associate our three votes, and cast them all of the three, even in the case that our votes where to let's say alter winning positions, or create a tie that forces a re-polling.

would that be a valid alternative? I don't know.
I may be ok with this. I had not consulted either JWocky or Skyboat on their feelings or preferences on this matter.

[SkyBoat]

Wow! I had some commitments I had to attend to today and come back to the forum and find a mess. That after we had a fabulous weekend of great flying and fun and fellowship. It's a bit stunning.

To clear up my status on the other forum, yes, I did resign, in solidarity with IAHM-COL and JWocky, but also I posted a piece protesting their being banned that would have gotten me banned anyway. It likely had a lifespan on their forum of somewhere in the range of less than 5 seconds. So, nevertheless, I'm out/banned for good and have no regrets.

My take on the whole polling issue is that the organizers should get the choice of stating where the vote are to be sent. I don't know of any other situation where the voters sit around and argue they should be able to negotiate where they should be able to send their votes.

For the sake of efficiency, it should be organized at Free Flight. That's just the simple solution.

I can assure you there will be no voter irregularities because I will volunteer to be the collector and auditor of the voting. Since I don't have a preference where we hold the Spring Festival, just that we have one, I have no dog in that fight, as the old saying goes. And if one of you wants to volunteer to be my partner in collecting the results so we have two sets of eyes on them, I'll be more than happy to share the responsibility.

Maybe JWocky can set up a special mailbox for us, so people can send their choices directly to it and we can tally the results.

What do you say? Are you willing to take me up on my offer?

[elgaton]

Once we are certain of the total list of candidate positions proposed both in thejabberwocky.net and Curtis' Forum, the poll maybe made on Curtis' Forum instead. No duplication existing in thejabberwocky.net. The poll running for exactly 15 days, allowing all community members (able to), to cast their vote in the Curtis' forum for their preferred next location. At the end of the 15 days, the poll will close in Curtis' forum and the results been frozen will be revealed.

IAHM-COL, if you (and JWocky/SkyBoat) agree to do so, I'm willing to manage the poll on Curtis' forum. The SurveyMonkey poll is also acceptable.

I think Lydiot has a point - while several organizers of the Festival are only on this forum, holding the poll here would not be much practical. Since most participants are still on Curtis' forum, I believe opening the poll there - or giving them an opportunity to vote on a third-party service - would be best. Consider that some people might vote and just follow the Festival thread without interacting; also - in line with what KL-666 said, but from a different perspective, if I might say so - holding the poll only here would require users on the project forum to register for yet another website, which they might not want to do (it's not easy to follow a single forum, let alone two). Finally, while I'm fully aware this site is the only way for IAHM-COL/JWocky/SkyBoat to communicate and contribute - which is a good thing - I fear asking people to move the entire discussion here might be seen as an attempt to (apologies if I'm bold) take sides, especially now (as it's evident that there are still open, unresolved issues). The last two reasons are the ones why I initially hesitated to sign up here.

As IAHM-COL said, I'm a bit dubious, but, since the "double poll" solution is not practical, I have a slight bias towards holding the poll on Curtis' forum or on an external site. (I'm also crossposting and summarizing the discussion so far in the thread on Curtis' forum right now).

[simbambim]

Ok, I’ll expand on my idea.
If you look at the map,

Oslo-Stockholm-Copenhagen forms a triangle with 200-300 nm between the airports: a nice distance for airliners. (Just two controlled airports is a bit boring, but depends on how many ATCs we can get, of course.)
Or we can take Oslo-Stockholm-Helsinki and if we can get a Center control in Stockholm and at least tower (or better, approach) in the other two, we have very good options of longer (Oslo-Helsinki is about the same as Geneve-Vienna) and shorter routes and good control coverage.
Personally I found the LOWW-LSGG route too long since there was no ATC in the middle part. Possibly it could have been improved by placing the LOVV_CT in another airport to the West of LOWW while still covering it, since most, if not all, traffic was coming from the West, so that way the coverage could have beeen extended by some 80 nm. But I don’t know if it would have been possible with the OpenRadar files - surely not without preparing in advance.
We could even take all 4 airports if we have ATCs but that’s probably maximum (Copenhagen already has a regular ATC - if he’s willing to participate).
I’ve been to all of these airports recently and the 2D layouts are ok (in fact we’re gonna have the next generation scenery by that time) but buildings are yet to be made (except just for Helsinki, I think) - which they surely deserve as European capitals.
One more plus, charts are freely available from their AIPs.

[IAHM-COL]

@elgaton.

I say, let's agree with Lydiot.
Lets make the poll on Curtis Forum.

JWocky, Skyboat and I will reserve the right of casting our votes when the poll is over. That prevents double voting, and also guarantee our rights of opinion.

In the other sense: As KL-666 and Skyboat make clear, in order for us to coordinate effectively and communicate effectively about the following festivals, organization and communication will be more fluent if taken place in this forum, and communicated promptly (before final decisions are made) to Curtis' in order to engage the whole community. The rest of the community being aware that communications are ALSO being taking place here, and advised to follow the thread as well.

This means that likeway, critical decision or information coming over Curtis, may require crossfeeding here for those that find annoyance to follow double threads, or that because are banned don't follow any of such information

Does it sound like a good plan?

[simbambim]

• Turkey
• Germany
• Greece
• Neetherlands - Belgium - Luxembourg
• West Russia (West of the Ural Mountains)

Greece and Turkey could be joined. Athens-Istanbul=290 nm. But Turkey is problematic with regard to charts.

[IAHM-COL]

@Simbambin

I think that is an awesome idea.

Ammending my suggestion

@elgaton

See the first post for the current updated candidates.
Are there new suggestions over Curtis' ?

[IAHM-COL]

@elgaton

I propose to open the poll next Tuesday 17, and run it for 15 days (2 week). Allow the rest of this week to allow possible suggestions or comments over the current candidates and possible additions of further candidates?

IH-COL

[IAHM-COL]

about Scandinavia

Certainly that would make an awesome plane for ATCing the festival. While mini-games could be ice-age minigames.
Maybe I could even develop Helsinki, and make it another FGMEMBERS hub as Geneve, in honor of Thorsten