This is a dead end -- Goodbye

[bomber]

:x
Thought I could just move on in peace, but I get an email showing me this topic... so now I have to go defend my ass again. Can we just stop with this "lets all harass Josh" attitude please?

If as you say you wanted to move on in peace, then why post critism of the community in at least 3 places ?

And don't blame anyone else other than the person who emailed you

bomber,
I do not read forum threads unless they concern me, such as help requests for my aircraft or the development threads I've created. It does not interest me whatso ever. So sorry, but I don't see how that is my problem.

You're right. you have no personal resposiblity for the culture of the community..... it's not up to you to set an example but instead for others to do that.

Next, I decided a while go to stop taking sides shortly after the "terraGIT" incident, because I don't really care for arguments. The results of this were astounding -- I was happier -- and had more fun!

If like me you have pages and pages of private mails from Curt, bascially telling you how you're being manipulated by FGMembers, and slagging of Isreal and Jwocky.... what you're actually saying is that you capituated under the pressure.

So no -- I don't associate with anyone since that incident. I just do my development, and enjoy myself. People have different opinions, I've learned that much in life, and it's not worth it to fight them constantly.

So you stand back and watch them bully newbies, keeping quiet so as to enjoy yourself ?

always feeling that you'd rather not upset Curt, bugman at al.

So no, I don't try to not upset curt and the other guys. I don't try to not upset you. I don't try to not upset anybody, and I don't try to upset anybody. There is no benefit for that! I'm just here to enjoy aviation.

Yeh so was I.... and others. But we also had a concience about how some people were being treated and spoke up against it.... Speaking up against injustice/bullying isn't the same as 'trying not to upset anyone'.... it's about being an active part of the community and not someone who just wants people to aplaud his work.

So is it through hard work and diligence or by not questioning Thorstens views ?

I guess my 2 years of development work is not hard work at all, huh. Well, if it's that easy, you should be able to easily make the same thing in 10% of the time, right?

And all those others that put hard work in... the years, far more than you.... yet once they'd spoken out had their enjoyment constantly whitle away.

As I said before, I don't question Thorsten's views because I don't take read it! As I stated, I only read what I am interested to read.

Further, while I do appreciate Thorsten's comment, if he had said he hated my work and my project -- that is his opinion, I don't really care! I know there are people who like my work, and those who don't. That is their choice, and I am just doing it to enjoy myself, and for the people who enjoy my work.

The difference between us is that I haven't left in a huff blaming the community for not liking me... and that if Thorsten was to attack another persons work you'd just keep you head down, just so long as it's not you being critisised.

I have only tried to contribute positive to the FlightGear project, and you have done nothing but criticize me. (and if you think I will stick up for you after that, you are joking yourself)

What ! when ! .... you lieing git, I've never critized you whilst you were a member of the FG community.... you've left now btw.

and I'll do so now considering your parting cheap shot at a community you admit to making no contribution to effecting it's culture.

I don't want to involve myself in all the drama, and I noticed that they will just keep fighting, maybe forever. So I just ignore it and try to do what I love, but after being hostilely treated by several different people, many times, I have decided I don't want to be a part of the forum community anymore.

Lastly, what you and others (such as Catalanoic) fail to understand is: The people who have been kind and respectful to me I have only the most gratitude and respect for, but it only takes one person with malicious intent to destroy the kind intent of others.

And what you fail to understand is that with your sit back and ignore everything that's happening to other people as long as it's not me attitude.... you just give these people permission to go after the next person.

We'll never agree on this because you're still a child, without any understanding that it's the strongs or those with a meritous position in a communities resposnisbilty to look after the weak, and build towards a healthy vibrant community.....

I posted time and time again within the flight modeling forum of FG, encourageing debate and interest in flight modeling.... and time and time again those that don't do flight models waded in with their opinions and disrupted conversations that were both interesting and informative.... not once did anyone say "Hold on Thorsten (and others) STFU you don't do flight modeling so have a little respect for those that do and feck off back to the weather forum and explain to people again why clouds spin"

And it's because you and others fail to support other members of the community whilst they're getting a kicking that I have little respect or inclination to feel protective of you now some nasty baddy waddy man has said some nasty wasty wordies to you.

Simon

[Octal450]

Hi Simon,
I'm sorry that we disagree and couldn't end this on a better note, but I respect your opinion. I assure you isn't my intent to anger someone.

I do apologize, I worded my sentence falsely, You have not criticized my work, but I felt as if you do not respect my opinions or ideas. (ex: I am insincere, and only aim to please curt and etc) That was my error, and I apologize for that.

My reason for leaving was not because "people don't like me", I actually couldn't care less who does and doesn't like me. I was simply getting too stressed to deal with the people who have malicious intent towards me (which seems to happen every few months, at least).

I never intended to criticize everyone, just those who have intentionally harassed me. I apologize if that was not clear in my previous message.

Best wishes,
Josh

[bomber]

That's ok Josh, I was rather reacting to the broad brush you used when commenting on those that had been malicious.

I too at the end felt I couldn't put up with what was obviously malicious acts towards me. It got the point where I couldn't post on FG forum without Thorsten turning up for the first time in the topic soley with the intent of creating a ruckus. I swapped over to here and had conversations and even then people, moderators would copy and paste my words from here over to there with the intent of misrepresenting me.

Basically all I wanted to do was explore my hobby of flight modelling with other people of like mind... People that wished to talk the pros and cons of various techniques that can be used to get results. I thought a forum was the place to do this, but on a regular basis i was shown otherwise. And it got to the point where I could offer no value to the forum members, mentor anyone interested in flight modelling or simply hang out. And what became obvious was that although there's a common denominator, the same person is still involved in arguments, still smashing his opinion into other people, reducing conversations to rubble. And yet anything negative always reflects on the other person, shit never sticks to him, and in a month's time he'll be the instigator of another flamefest.

In my opinion, having differences of opinions are fine. Doing something different to what another person would do it is fine..... It hurts no one. And within a forum discussions along 'what if' lines help to create interest and small groups that 'have a go'.... But All too often this dynamic is stomped on and individuals are forced to work on their own or in isolation. The whole FG culture is almost anti-development. I'm not saying one can't develop just that it's not an open environment in which to do so.

Why am I saying this.... Because it's up to each individual to make a difference in the FG culture, and I can never subscribe to burying one's head in the sand or looking the other way. You've admitted to doing this, primarily out of wanting to have fun with your hobby, and I too want to have fun in my hobby, and I suspect jwocky and Israel wanted fun too, and a load of others.

What they didn't want I'm guessing is to find that when they mentioned or tried to instigate some momentum to gather like minded people into a working group... For those efforts to be pulled apart without even giving them the chance to nurture the seedling of an idea.

A lot of good stuff could have been moved forward, and a lot of new people come forward and helped.... But I don't blame an for staying away from FG when one considered how toxic the culture is.

So who's to blame ?

I didn't write a nasty blog about FGmembers, and I don't continue to spread lies about how FGmembers treats licence violations. But I did notice all the pious comments about how it was 'others' and not the FG community.

Facts are moderators on FG forum are a joke... They should be removed from office and there should be set up a time based contract between individuals and the forum to act as moderators of various sections of the forum. Involve the community in policing itself and create an atmosphere where posters are encouraged to become active members, first with their ideas and then later on with actual development work.

[Octal450]

Hi Simon,
Thanks for your understanding. I'd like to say I understand, but I haven't seen the topics and they'd probably be deleted by now anyways, but I do try to understand where you are coming from. Some people like attacking just for the sake of attacking, and when they find their target, they go for em. It's a shame really, and that's why I wanted out of there. I guess I'm not sure why I crossposted the exact message I did, since so far, no-one over here has been hostile directly towards me. (which I appreciate!)

Best Regards,
Josh