As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

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IAHM-COL
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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:30 pm

J Maverick 16 wrote:I think this year I want to give a hand in the festival organization,


Yay! to that!

J Maverick 16 wrote:especially if it is held in UK, so we can put up a great event which fits ok for FGUK, ATCs and pilots.


:P
You are cooking the soup without buying the chicken. The possibility of the festival being in UK, without starting a poll run is 2/15 or about 13% (poll style 2) or 1/6 or about 17% (poll style 1)
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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby IAHM-COL » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:16 pm

@Warty.
This forum is rather new, and I don't think we have a retirement protocol.
I would suggest, it that is your final word, maybe send an email to JWocky, the site admin, about your voluntary removal from the board. With that statement, we can go ahead and get your account some "retired" status.

I am sorry you are so angry, and you feel so ill-treated, but in my opinion you voiced your opinions, others theirs. and that's that.

My other opinion is that all together this is a fuss out of nothing. Firstly, EGOD-EGTS was a suggestion replaced for a more realistic UK+Ireland. Secondly, although it has been voiced that we could eventually invite the FGUK to participate in the festival, no-one is certainly going to force them to participate. Thirdly, I feel, for what I've read in the thread link to the UK forum, that the FGUK group is not unanimously so "up on arms" against an UK festival. Fourthly, your comments here misrepresent FGUK sentiment -- or is largely exaggerated. Fifthly, we don't know yet whether UK is any of the 2016 festivals, so much of this argumentation is out of time. Sixthly, I don't know what control freak had Forced you to be under his ATC control -- I hope it was not me. When you showed up in Geneve during the festival, you told me you were just doing pleasure VFR flying, and I stop asking about you and let you fly on your convenience, out of my traffic. Seventhly, your post on the FGUK thread where you state:
http://fguk.eu/index.php/forum/flying-operations/5897-festival-of-flightgear-fall-2016-proposals-read-please?limitstart=0#26626 wrote:I think I've revved them up enough to not want to get involved with us now, anyway :evil:
is actually wrong. You have not revved us up at all. We are not backing up UK as a candidate for all this, nor I won't dissuade myself to look at EGOD as an alternative post for my ATC position completely, yet -- if the event is in UK. Your Zero tolerance policy is of Zero concern to me.

Best,
IH-COL
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If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?

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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby KL-666 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:57 pm

Typical for a populist/demagogue is:

- first make bold statements
- when people react, then do as if they never were said
- while complaining about being attacked for no reason on these issues

Works with dumb people, but not here.

Kind regards, Vincent

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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby simbambim » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:51 am

Warty wrote:Jabberwocky wades in making stuff up about what I said and throwing in a personal attack

... said the guy who started out in this thread with a personal attack himself...

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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby simbambim » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:53 am

Do we need to have Lydiot in organizing this at all? He isn't contributing anything useful this year, only causing problems. We've been crossposting, feeding him information and taking into account his every wish while he's been acting like a jerk towards us by blocking every initiative, demanding that everything is agreed with him and every trifle is voted on, or else it's a "minority decision". Who is he, after all and why do we need to act subserviently towards him? He is not ATCing nor organizing in any constructive way, so why don't we get rid of him? And now he's started insulting people who were patient enough to explain him on four pages what the FSWeekend is. His attitude is just getting worse and worse.

IAHM-COL wrote:Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, elgaton --I believe
Option 2: JWocky

Some other opinion? explain

I'm for Europe in Fall.

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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:18 am

Hi Simbambin

Do we need to have Lydiot in organizing this at all?

Brief answer. yes.
Long answer. He is a member of the community and his opinion has equal value than yours, mine, elgatons, etc.
He will be part of this for as long as he wants to.

He isn't contributing anything useful this year, only causing problems. We've been crossposting, feeding him information and taking into account his every wish while he's been acting like a jerk towards us by blocking every initiative, demanding that everything is agreed with him and every trifle is voted on, or else it's a "minority decision".


I find this a tricky business. Firstly, his posture is that the festival does not belong to thejabberwocky.net, but it is a community event. He pulls for the information and decision to be taken on Curtis' forum instead. We already did our best to clarify to him that while he has a good point, there is nothing JWocky, Skyboat and I can do about this. We only have a voice here, so it is the only place we are going to be broadcasting.
He places elgaton in an uncomfortable situation by rejecting this forum, and expecting him to crossfeed him. Other than that, I also agree that regardless of where decisions take place (and this forum is more convenient in terms of having equal opportunity of participation), information needs to be broadcasted over Curtis', if anything, for the main purpose of inform the community at large.

He did make an appeal about having the poll in Curtis'. But it wasn't only him. Elgaton backed up that proposal. The argument being that most FG community is concentrated on the main forum. The point is valid. I found hard to believe that we will get a massive participation on the poll with the thousands of possible contributors weighting in. But for the worth of the doubt, we agreed the poll to be returned to Curtis', and the three participants unable to vote there, we will weight our votes last.

In that sense, Lydiot's position was not just unreasonable.

Other comments he has raised is not tying the Fall festival to Europe and to the FSWeekend. As a matter of fact, JWocky above has made the same proposal.

Who is he, after all and why do we need to act subserviently towards him? He is not ATCing nor organizing in any constructive way, so why don't we get rid of him?


I don't know who he is. But it does not come to being a thing of matter. All I know is: 1) he has been with us discussing about the festival since the first one in Spain. 2) he wants to participate, and 3) willingly is part of the community.

On the other hand, I do also feel he has been raising concerns on every turn. And about basically everything. It seems he has an idea of what the festival is not that it should be. I am still waiting to hear the idea layout. That'll be better that having us second-guessing every possible alternative we come up with. In the past this has never been this deep on an issue.; We wanted a festival. We (I) made a poll. The result of the poll gave us a destination. We've chosen, for the simple sake of sportmanship to host this as a FSWeekend parallel in Fall, and be close to Holland for those interested in a fly in to Lelystad. None of this cause a major number of questions summarizing" Why do it this way and how decided?

It is just the way it has been. And no major "WAIT A MINUTE!" attitude came before this time.

Understanding he is a member of the community. That he has been involved in the community and thus at least we need to listen to his suggestions is not, in my opinion subservient.

Is he, in my opinion, trying to get a more relevant position in the festival? I think he is. I think that is good as well. I hope it translates in a more proactive role on his part as well in the whole process of planning and executing (as oppose to speak out loud now, and then come with a Boeing for a one flight thing on due date)

And now he's started insulting people who were patient enough to explain him on four pages what the FSWeekend is. His attitude is just getting worse and worse.


Yes. I saw that. I saw that the topic got tense between you and he in the Curtis' Forum about this. The real question is not : what he understand FSWeekend is, or whether he understands the dynamics of the festival. The question is: If he wants it to be something different, how about telling us in plain English What it is, instead of having us second guessing him, to just get back to square zero by him saying: No. Also I don't want that.

I feel elgaton needs to take a crucial role of a leader here to take us out of this going in circles trying to figure out how to do a Festival, when we already organized 3 succesfully.
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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:19 am

Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, elgaton --I believe, Simbambin
Option 2: JWocky

Some other opinion? explain
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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby legoboyvdlp » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:23 am

IAHM-COL wrote:Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, elgaton --I believe
Option 2: JWocky

Some other opinion? explain

Me too for no 1.
So 4-1 score, it is 60 minutes into the game. 30 minutes left.
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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby KL-666 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:44 am

Just found out what this option 1 and 2 is about. I do not expect that i have a say in it, as i am not an organizer. But i will give my opinion, to do with as you like.

In my memory the festival is related to the fsweekend. It was about having a festival near Lelystad, so in europe. I think that one should stay. Later came an extra festival at a half year diff, anywhere in the world. That one should stay too.

To me it is inconceivable not to have a festival in europe during fsweekend, so i feel for Option 1.

Kind regards, Vincent

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Re: As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

Postby IAHM-COL » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:07 am

Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, elgaton --I believe, Simbambin, KL-666, Legoboyvdlp (6)
Option 2: JWocky (1)

Some other opinion? explain
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If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?


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