As the poll for FG Festival Spring Festival 2016 comes close

[IAHM-COL]

@Israel
we stop exaggerating the importance of his opinion and evaluate first whether his ideas/objections to our ideas are reasonable. E.g. why does he need to have the last word on whether there will be a poll on "Fall always in Europe"?

I hope we don't exaggerate his importance. It is my understanding he does not have the last word. He has his word, as you do yours, and I do mine.

Why does his single person's opinion "we must vote on this" carry more weight than our communal "this doesn't need voting because it's an established tradition"?

Following two threads, both very long, is hard, so I may be misinformed. But has Lydiot suggested any going to vote or any poll? If so, what is such poll.

Who has said, after all, that the Festival has to be organized on the official forum? It could be organized on a mailing list, for example. It could be even organized secretly! (not a suggestion, just saying) And what is wrong with a minority decision, if the majority is silently accepting it, with only one person in opposition? See, these are just loud words, but if you look at what they really mean, the reality is that the organizers of a mass event are always a small group (minority) and it is not only their right, but their duty to take initiatives and make decisions.

We agree on this. Where we organize and how we organize is not bound to be in Curtis' Forum. If I am to be involved in such organization, the place where I can interact with anyone interested in something different except committing digital seppuku, is here.

So see, that turns the tables completely. He is trying to position himself as the representative of the majority on the basis that he is in the official forum with the majority of users, but the reality is, among contributors he is a minority and he is alone with his unreasonable scrutiny and insane demands for voting everything. So why let ourselves be intimidated by his hysteria about "minority decision"?

Is he? I would accept he has his voice, and it counts as one. I won't accept his voice carrying the weight of the silent majority. The silent majority, for all practical purposes, is silent.

This is the fourth time organizing the festival, everything is more or less settled, we are still hearing everyone who has something to say and giving feedback to the larger community, the poll about the location will take place where the majority of users are and will be handled by elgaton. Lydiot has nothing more than his two votes to cast.

Yes. and yes.
The poll or the polls. Depending on what we conclude between Option 1 and Option 2 above.

Now, if you're saying that we should still hold him more important than the average user because of respect for him or because of his past contributions, I'll say that after the way he treated me, I have zero respect for him any more and zero wish to collaborate with him on one project.
If you think that this

Whatever dude. Take a Valium. Though I doubt it'll help you follow a conversation which you clearly are completely incapable of. I'll just put you on ignore for now.

is just "things getting tense", I'm afraid you're missing something. This is an insult that should have been removed by moderators within minutes without thinking twice, yet it is still there after two days and repeated requests for removal and Lydiot is showing no signs of regret.
Would we take seriously anyone else who came demanding that everything be his way and spitting other contributors in the face? Even if he had the best of ideas? Then why are we tolerating Lydiot's behaviour?

1) He has no more importance than the average user. He has no less either.
2) to keep clear points: I think Lydiots' statements crossed the line of respect. I side with you on that. Don't break your head about asking Curtis' Forum moderators for that to be removed. You are not in the list of untouchables that they have under their belt. Go Lydiot say much much less to Thorsten or Curtis, and see the reaction. I already told you, their moderation manipulations are a biased joke intended to portray a reality. That you get insulted like this has no value in their theatre.
3) AFAIK he has not spit any contributor in the face. But he has definitely come across as rude to you in those statements above. If I read his post above correctly he is not considering an apology to you either

But this is the situation. The festival is not MY event. I don't get to have last words either. On the other hand, I advise you to take his words for what they are worth. He does not own it either -- IIRC. He puts you on the ignore list, but your word still counts exact as much as his to make any decision you both want to weight in.

And let me remind you that you sugggested this yourself and that the problem with the poll that existed then now has been resolved.

Yes. On the current issue at hand (poll 1 or poll 2), I stand by my word. We need to weight each opinion on the matter, and do what that concludes. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=156&hilit=outnumber&start=220#p2698

[IAHM-COL]

And here I am.

Welcome in

The difference is in the perception. I never perceived the choice of location as having been predetermined using a specific set of parameters:

a) Has to be in Europe
b) Has to be tied to FSWeekend

As far as I could see there was never a decision made on those parameters being necessary when making a choice, only that there was a coincidence. I was fine with that coincidence, because as far as I could tell the poll was the determining factor.

It was not a coincidence. I designed that intentionally.

I think elgaton already clarify for you. briefly, last year two polls were held simmultaneously. One decided two have two festivals per year. The other decided the favorite location for a festival was Austria/Switzerland. The runner up was Argentina/Brazil.
We had two options. Clearly. Argentina/Brazil on Spring or Fall. I invited to keep the European Festival on Europe, during Fall, and make it coincide with the FSWeekend. That single reason to make Argentina/Brazil to settle on Spring. And settle all other matters.

As I found so far, KL666, elgaton, simbambin, and I are all in favor of that tradition. A tradition that would state

The Festival of Flightgear occurring in Fall WILL take place in Europe. The Festival of Flightgear occurring in Fall WILL take place during the 48h of FSWEEKEND

So your perception is correct in that it does not HAVE to be. I wonder if you already perceived that we WANT it to be.

IF we want to determine location/time using other parameters then the very least those who propose that should be willing to do is justify it, that was one of my points.

That's part of the problem. No one needs an elaborate justification. What we are deciding is not something utterly critical. Its just a trivial decision about when and where we will have a festival again.
In other terms, the simple fact that we want to hold the FSWEEKEND/FALL Festival close to Europe, as a want (not a must) is a rather unfounded reason. But it is all reason we need.

It becomes a problem of who says yay!. who says nay! and count that.

The second part of the problem, is that you engage in a futile war of shooting the messenger. Simbambin did not invented any of the things I read she posted in Curtis forum. She read them from my posts. And delivered them to you. AFAICT she never tried to make stuff up. Not even try to be a decision caller -- or a last voice. BUT more importantly, if she would have, there is not problem with that either, because she is as much a member of this community as you are, and if she is willing, she will take part on the decisions of this festival, if we want to call it the "community's" decision.
Putting her down, calling her an idiot, and asking her to take valium does look really bad on you.

As has been pointed out this community and FG is what it is, and I'm just one person, but it would be nice if those who advocate certain things can use reasoning to convince others rather than just state that something is the case because the latter is less inclusive.

So far is not less inclusive on my opinion. We are standing 6 to 1.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=156&hilit=outnumber&start=220#p2698

And I listen to yours and others, or I wouldn't have asked the questions I did. After some back and forth it seems to me that we've actually reached close to the same conclusions on some issues, which from my standpoint isn't about winning/losing some arguments, but at least partially just explaining to the other person the thinking behind what one's opinion is. So my "questions" aren't just some nay-sayering nuisance, it's a genuine wish to understand just what's going on.

Simple. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=156&hilit=outnumber&start=210#p2651

We want to make a decision now and settle it for good. The decision being.
Option ( Poll ) 1: The fall festival is in europe and the location is decided in an all European candidate list. The event takes place on Fall, coinciding FSWeekend. The spring festival is anywhere in the world except Europe. The location to be decided in a candidate list that has no european contenders. The event takes place around 6 months after FSWeekend. This forces the Fall European festival. This guarantees a non european festival a year as well.

Option (Poll ) 2: The locations of the festival take place in a single poll including all possible candidates up to 15. The winner is the location for fall. The Runner up is the locatio for spring. This does not force an European Fall event, and thus, it is less relevant whether it takes place on FSWeekend. This method doesn't force anything at all for that matters. Two european festivals could occur, or two non european festivals for that matter. Or one european and one non european in any order.

Again, we are standing 6 to 1 in favor of poll 1. What's your call? [You can either vote and/or comment]

My perception of it was that it was a community event where people had input on where and when it should be. I think a sufficient amount of people actually participated in a prior discussion on whether to have one event or two to give that a status of being essentially "set", the same being true of the time for them. I did not however think the same was true for location.

So to sum up: To me it's a communal event, and on some more important issues I think a wider range of opinions need to be considered, along with a wider actual or virtual poll. For "lesser" issues I don't think that's necessary, and you obviously won't see me questioning those.

I have a long workday ahead of me so if I don't respond right away that's why.

Yes, but we need to decide for what poll we are using.
Have a great day at work.

IH-COL

[IAHM-COL]

@Lydiot
If you are curious about better reasons, KL-666 declared his reasons to opt for option 1 above.
JWocky declared his reasons on support of option 2 above.

[IAHM-COL]

@elgaton.
Just for the sake of sanity.
Would you mind stating specifically whether you are for poll option 1, option 2 or abstain ?

[elgaton]

I'd like to abstain for now and wait for Lydiot's reply first.

[IAHM-COL]

Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, Simbambin, KL-666, Legoboyvdlp (5)
Option 2: JWocky (1)

Some other opinion? explain

[MIG29pilot]

Add me to option 1

[IAHM-COL]

Summarizing:

Option 1: IH-COL, Maverick, Simbambin, KL-666, Legoboyvdlp, MiG29Pilot (6)
Option 2: JWocky (1)

Some other opinion? explain

[KIWI34]

Add me tooo

[IAHM-COL]

@KIWI. Please clarify. I can add you to option 1 (2 polls. Europe in Fall. Europe in FSWeekend. Spring festival somewhere not Europe) or option 2. (1 poll, winner Fall, Runner up in Spring)

see here: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=156&hilit=outnumber&start=210#p2651