Intelligence: Earth, AI, Jupiter, and Beyond the infinite

[IAHM-COL]

Well... the last few days have been intense. I guess that's the nature of the bussiness.

I hope we can get to the unanimous consensus that 'ad hominem' attacks are not within the boundaries of 'free speech'. We want to avoid throwing ourselves again in a wild spiral of fight-clubs. The book is written, the movie is already made, no need for sequels.

Separately, given the realized need that our forum needed an space to discuss <<unrelated non-nonsense>>, we had decided to create the sub thread:

42: The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

We hope this title help us remember the most important advise:


Lastly, we have been talking about E.T.s, and other lost civilizations. I guess the knowledge and fear to understand that intelligence is out there to be found: AI, organic, and otherwise, will always be a powerful motivation, as well. On that direction I will dare cite Douglas Adams again, and leave it for others to comment:

It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem. For instance, on the planet Earth, man has always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much. The wheel, New York, Wars and so on. Whilst all the Dolphins had ever done was play around on the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed that they were more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons.

Curiously enough, the dolphins always had long known of the impending demolition of earth, and had made many attempts to alert mankind to the danger, but much of these communication were misinterpreted as amusing attempts to punch footballs, or whistle for tidbits, so they eventually gave up and left the Earth by their own means, shortly before the folgons arrived. The last ever dolphin's message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double-backward somersault through a hoop while whistling the "Star-Spangled banner'', but in fact the message was this: "SO LONG...... AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH'".

In fact there was only one species on the planet more intelligent than dolphins, and they expend a lot of time in behavioral research laboratories conducting frightening, elegant and subtle experiments on men. The fact that men, once again, completely misinterpreted this relationship, was entirely according to these creatures plans, as Arthur Dent will shortly discover.

[HJ1an]

Love the Hitchhiker's Guide. The movie was OK, but the book was interesting. Unfortunately I never quite finished the second book (was there more?)

On life Out There: I imagine it to be solid yes, but as for intelligent life it might be too far away to be meaningful at all. ie. if the next closest intelligent lifeform (at least in the way we measure intelligence using ourselves as benchmark) is in Andromeda galaxy, what is really the point. Can't prove, can't meet, ever. But it's fun to imagine. I love deep space images and spent many hours just looking at images of stars and galaxies in books. I can do that on the internet now, but somehow it's lost its appeal since it's so interactive. You learn more, but just one black and white picture from a book can spur so much imagination..

[KL-666]

Intelligence is not all that special. Some of the big apes have the intelligence of a 4 year old human. We are not saying a 4 year old human is not an intelligent creature, are we?

Btw. If you like 4 year olds, you can take one of such apes in the home, they stay 4 year old.

Kind regards, Vincent

[HJ1an]

As I said, intelligence is hard to gauge. In my post I'm saying using ourselves as a benchmark to find this 'intelligent' life. Intelligent in this sense as in about the same as us, since we can't imagine what other type of intelligence there is that took a different path from Earth developed.

[IAHM-COL]

4yr.

[HJ1an]

[LesterBoffo]

David Brin's 6 book Uplift Series of Sci-Fi stories, holds a interesting view on intelligence and sentience. In his version of our galaxy, we're the odd species who 'self uplifted' or reached sentience without another more advanced species help and guidance. In addition to our genetic mutation experiments of 'uplifting' of dogs, chimpanzees, and dolphins, which rubs several species noses the wrong way, as we took on something that other galactic, space faring species had formally agreed to allow for only really advanced cultures.

Living in a galactic backwater has it's advantages..

Bill Nye has another view..

[jwocky]

I still try to figure out why some people believe intelligence and ethics and sentience (as in Babylon 5: The primary principle of sentience) are ultimatively connected to each other. There have been a lot of highly intelligent people who have done highly unethical things in history and sentience entails, in my point of view also the simple "thinking about what could happen if you do" which is all too often forgotten in the hurry even by the most intelligent and allegedly most ethical people. And then, there are for sure different ideas of ethics. I once was discussing with a guy who told me, America is the worst that ever happened on the planet and the US shouldn't have dropped the nukes in 1945 on Hiroshima and Japan. Aside of the mere technical fact of course, that both cities were lefit targets even by the terms of the Hague Protocol of course. I asked him about the alternatives and he suggested a blockade tactic to starve 100 million women and children to death to save 1 million from the nukes. So ... aside of the obvious limping of his arguments, there ARE different takes on what is is ethical. Makes me think once more, this whole humanity thing is sometimes very overrated.

[LesterBoffo]

So you feel that intelligence and sentience is overrated because you disagreed with someone about the US using nukes on Japan?

Sort of a glass half empty kind of view?

I feel civilization, intelligence and sentience takes practice. I also don't think that you go from being an upright hairless ape to a human being overnight. We're certainly gonna make lots of big future mistakes. I mean Douglas Adam's sentiment about some thinking the whole idea of coming down out of trees is where we botched it could apply here.

[IAHM-COL]

mmm... I see where this is going. OK. Time for a new quote

When Zarathustra arrived at the edge of the forest, he came upon a town. Many people had gathered there in the marketplace to see a tightrope walker who had promised a performance. The crowd, believing that Zarathustra was the ringmaster come to introduce the tightrope walker, gathered around to listen. And Zarathustra spoke to the people:

I teach you the Overman! Mankind is something to be overcome. What have you done to overcome mankind?

All beings so far have created something beyond themselves. Do you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and revert back to the beast rather than overcome mankind? What is the ape to a man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just so shall a man be to the Overman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame. You have evolved from worm to man, but much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, yet even now man is more of an ape than any of the apes.

Even the wisest among you is only a confusion and hybrid of plant and phantom. But do I ask you to become phantoms or plants?

Behold, I teach you the Overman! The Overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: The Overman shall be the meaning of the earth! I beg of you my brothers, remain true to the earth, and believe not those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poisoners are they, whether they know it or not. Despisers of life are they, decaying ones and poisoned ones themselves, of whom the earth is weary: so away with them!

Once blasphemy against God was the greatest blasphemy; but God died, and those blasphemers died along with him. Now to blaspheme against the earth is the greatest sin, and to rank love for the Unknowable higher than the meaning of the earth!

Once the soul looked contemptuously upon the body, and then that contempt was the supreme thing: -- the soul wished the body lean, monstrous, and famished. Thus it thought to escape from the body and the earth. But that soul was itself lean, monstrous, and famished; and cruelty was the delight of this soul! So my brothers, tell me: What does your body say about your soul? Is not your soul poverty and filth and wretched contentment?

In truth, man is a polluted river. One must be a sea to receive a polluted river without becoming defiled. I teach you the Overman! He is that sea; in him your great contempt can go under.

What is the greatest thing you can experience? It is the hour of your greatest contempt. The hour in which even your happiness becomes loathsome to you, and so also your reason and virtue.

The hour when you say: What good is my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness should justify existence itself!

The hour when you say: What good is my reason? Does it long for knowledge as the lion for his prey? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment!

The hour when you say: What good is my virtue? It has not yet driven me mad! How weary I am of my good and my evil! It is all poverty and filth and wretched contentment!

The hour when you say: What good is my justice? I do not see that I am filled with fire and burning coals. But the just are filled with fire and burning coals!

The hour when you say: What good is my pity? Is not pity the cross on which he is nailed who loves man? But my pity is no crucifixion!

Have you ever spoken like this? Have you ever cried like this? Ah! If only I had heard you cry this way!

It is not your sin -- it is your moderation that cries to heaven; your very sparingness in sin cries to heaven!

Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the madness with which you should be cleansed?

Behold, I teach you the Overman! He is that lightning, he is that madness!
And while Zarathustra was speaking in this way, someone in the crowd interrupted: "We've heard enough about the tightrope walker; now it's time to see him!" And while the crowd laughed at Zarathustra, the tightrope walker, believing that he had been given his cue, began his performance.