FZ981 -- 61 die; plane explodes after crashing at high speed on landing

[HJ1an]

Could also be windshear at the wrong place, wrong time. Failure to check the weather, or simply getting caught without enough time and altitude to get out? From the video, it simply went into the ground.

In any case, these types of lessons were supposed to have been learned. Time and time again, these things crop up.

[HJ1an]

Btw,just saw the graphs.. there is similarity to another incident in russia (i think) that a B737 stalled on go around and went stright into the runway

[legoboyvdlp]

That's a scary photograph. No hope there for any survivers.

[HJ1an]

Saw a post in airliner.net:

I will not come back on the different theories ( always the same ones : fuel *starvation* / stall / tail strike / managementr pressure / gothere-itis / bomb / microburst... etc...) which basically have no basis, especially considering the facts that we have at hand.
It would be quite interesting to stop a moment on the *environment* of this accident.
- 03.43 H local (the crew had already been on duty for eight hours ( from 16:45 to 00:43 Z)
- Weather was rainy and gusty wind 240°/ 28 gusting to 44 kt and temporarily 34 to 50 kt.
Visibility was just mediocre.
- the approach is in the dark, the city lays mostly , from the pîlot's viewpoint from 11 to 2 to 3 o'clock, meaning that there was a dark patch on the left side of the let-down.

-What does the FR24 readout reveal ?
1/- they had a rather bumpy flight as seen by the GS fluctuations during cruise.
2/- They did shoot for a semi-direct first approach, then overshot and joined the hold
3/- They held initially at FL080 then climbed to FL 150 where they did 9 complete racetrack circuits. Wind at that altitude was rather steady : 30 kt component on the racetrack.

- Aircraft was light , less than 52 t if one considers OEW = 43 t / Pax 5.5 t and fuel 3t = 51.5 t

- Considerations on modern twinjet airliners :
It is something few people outside the cockpit really imagine ; These aircraft have basically the thrust-to-weight ratio of an F-100 superSabre, the hottest thing flying not very long ago.
Problem is, these airliners have the engines slung below the wing, so from a low-weight approach speed AND trim, during a go-around one would go to a very important pitch up moment one would have to fight, both with the yoke and with the trim switches.
It's here that we could see the accident unfold :
- When the pilot initiates the go-around, from 1500 ft, some three nm from the threshold, we have a combination of an acceleration on the airplane axis and a vertical acceleration due to the pitch-up moment.
The inner ear ( our God given gyroscope ) will sense the horizontal acceleration as an added pitch-up, which doesn't stop there as tha aircr'aft is still accelerating. POilot reaction would be to push the control column, but as the aircr('aft is now going down and still accelerating the pilot's sensation will still be aboutr anj aircraft pointing its nose up.
Moreover ( this is less certain ) trhe darlk lefrt side is taken by the pilot as an *UP* side, which is fact he(s trying to avoid.
- Now we are well and truly inside the death dive caused by what pilots now call *somatogravic illusions*, i.e illusions caused by high accelerations.
- I do not a single second believe in a stall of any sort as the destruction of the airplane is so complete.

For like accidents, the first to come to mind is the GulfAir 320 in Bahrain, the Kenya Airways 737 in Beirut, among a lot of others.

So my hunch is for a crew spatial disorientation in gusty conditions after a long duty day.

[legoboyvdlp]

Interesting...

[legoboyvdlp]

After reaching an altitude of 4,050 ft (1,230 m), it began a rapid descent with a vertical speed reaching more than 21,000 ft/min -- wikipedia

[KL-666]

There are just a few facts known about this case:

1) There was no other option than to land at this airport. Not saying they were fuel starved already, but an alternate was no option anymore.

2) They were into the second go around.

3) They lost it in that go around.

Anything else is pure speculation because nothing adds up.

Going around at 1500 ft and presumably climbing 2500 ft is not illogical. But loosing it after such climb is. The startle of pitch up from underslung engines should be immediately at toga.

Wild guesses about fatigueness of the crew leading to vertigo do not have any fundament.

Best to stick to what can be designated as fact, untill the boxes tell us more.

Kind regards, Vincent

[legoboyvdlp]

If raw data could be fed into a 737-800 simulator... maybe we could send an email to Soitanen?

[HJ1an]

After reaching an altitude of 4,050 ft (1,230 m), it began a rapid descent with a vertical speed reaching more than 21,000 ft/min -- wikipedia

There is definitely some sort of fatigue and/or disorientation going on, possibly combine it with windshear or microburst, or simply just constant wind gusts and low cloud ceiling in the dark. The perfect storm.

Even if considering that it's fuel starvation, it won't just go straight into the ground like that. (If that video is the actual one)

[legoboyvdlp]

Was the plane on fire, or is it lights?