An Open Letter to Curt Olson

[KL-666]

I hear, Curtis sent out pms accusing me of filling your all heads with nonsense and Israel fills you all with anger

Err, i am as calm as can be.

Kind regards, Vincent

[KL-666]

Maybe Curts real name is Som Ting Wong.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

Better than Ho lee fuk

[IAHM-COL]

weren't those the fake names the press released for the Korean pilots that met SFO's sea barriers?

[jwocky]

Yup!

[Lydiot]

So, the Lydiot has put up his own unsolicited opnion as fact, twice in the last two posts. Here is his problem: Like everyone here, I have the right to free speech. Means, he can yell a thousand times I could have, IN HIS OPINION, skipped the Eichmann comparison. But alone his reaction shows, how necessary it was.

Your right to freedom of speech isn't a problem of mine, nor is it a problem for the argument I made. That's just a dumb straw man.

Lydiot would have preferred it all low key, easier to ignore.

Again, it's probably the language barrier at work here, but I never said for you to express yourself in a low key way, nor did I state or imply the desire for your view to be ignored. If you can't get your fucking brain around the fact that people get turned off by hearing others compared to people like Eichmann and that just avoiding that while making your point forcefully in other ways that aren't ignored then I guess you're just ignorant or stupid.

And of course, he had to label me a "knucklehead blowhard"

Creative quoting by you again. I no longer put it past you to be completely dishonest when quoting people, nevertheless it's still somewhat eye-catching when it happens. What I actually wrote was: "Now you just come off as a knucklehead blowhard." The point was clear; some people will stop listening to the parts of your arguments that are valid because of that view of you, regardless of that being an accurate depiction of you or not.

So you can, again, have people either ignore what you say because you turn them off, or you can have them listen to you if you skip that horseshit of yours.

I didn't bow to his attempts to limit my free speech.

I didn't try to limit your free speech, I gave you a fucking recommendation so that your message could get better received and have greater effect. But I understand that to you that actually doesn't matter. Your head is so far up your ass that all that matters is that you get to argue that you're right and bitch and whine about things. If that wasn't the case you would have comprehended that it was a recommendation, not an attempt to silence you.

But playing the martyr is pretty cool too. You're very brave to not bow to everybody else's attempts to limit your speech. On your forum. LoL.... I mean.... are you serious?

The part here that makes me laugh is, that the Lydiot tries to do Curtis work (normally the guys, like Bugman, on the other forum are the ones trying to limit other people's free speech by handing out such opinion labels) but he doesn't realize, he won't get anything for it from Emperor Curtis. Why? Because Curtis, Stuart, Bugman & Co live to different degrees and with different skill levels already exactly what the Lydiot tries to sell me here as the latest wisdom. But his "unbecoming" is nothing but an euphemism for "uncomfortable".

I stood up for you guys that got banned when you got banned. I'm sure you'd rather forget that because it doesn't fit your new narrative. I'm mentioning that because you seem to think that I somehow care about some sort of e-credit I'd get from Curtis, Stuart et al. I don't. I don't expect that at all. I'm all in favor for free speech and I don't like people getting banned, but that doesn't mean that saying anything is productive. It's not about "politically correct", it's about productively communicating - still forcefully - with other people.

You're clearly incapable of that.

But then again, what's new?

And your description of reality makes me wonder if you quite possibly are clinically delusional. It seems like a very plausible diagnosis.

[jwocky]

So, even if the comparison in behavioural terms is entirely correct, you don't want to hear it ... now, that says more about you than me. On another note, I ask you politely to edit your post, you went down in the f-word language, probably a result of too much rage after I hurt your political correct sensibilities, nevertheless, well ... it doesn't become you ...
And on the point, you may don't like the comparison but I can defend it on a strictly scientific base and thus, the comparison stand, whether you use f-words and want me to wrap my brain about your poor sensible political correct soul. So, you got my pity for that, but I'm afraid, that is all you get from me in this matter.
However ... one thing on a personal note: You claim you stood up "for us guys" when we got banned. That's fine, especially since we were banned for promoting a better technical solution and a platform to get more and better planes for FlightGear. So, we were working for the community. So, you stood up for the community, not for us personal. You should learn to make such fine differences unless your attempt to call in "personal" debt was an intentional under the belt hit. You really should clear that up before people get the wrong impression of The Lydiot as someone who tries to play personal favour politics before the community interest. Your special brand of "constructive communicating" outs you for my taste too much as someone who thinks, in his infinite arrogance, he can say others what to do and because he one time acted in favour of basically everyone, now all the others who did the same and more have forever to kiss his feet or you label them "incapable" with "a f****** brain" ... and that, Lydiot, is not going to happen!

[IAHM-COL]

I stood up for you guys that got banned when you got banned. I'm sure you'd rather forget that because it doesn't fit your new narrative. I'm mentioning that because you seem to think that I somehow care about some sort of e-credit I'd get from Curtis, Stuart et al. I don't. I don't expect that at all. I'm all in favor for free speech and I don't like people getting banned, but that doesn't mean that saying anything is productive. It's not about "politically correct", it's about productively communicating - still forcefully - with other people.

I admit this paragraph being true. You were among the few that strongly rejected the Mods decisions of banning J and I, and one of the few that really concerns honestly and integrally about the consequences of that poorly-thought action, in terms of how it splits the community and feeds a "two-camp" thing.

I also do remember that you played the card of "let's avoid the community split" and suggested to maintain conversations (such as the festival talks) on Curtis, disregarding that such proposal long passed the impracticable into the impossible. And such resilience to just having two forum accounts created frictions that were rather unnecessary. Really, it was out of our hands.

For the rest, Yeah! OK. You know JWocky already. And you know he can be blunt and strong worded. So, where is the surprise here? If I recall correctly his way of stating his mind and his opinion is the root that he was removed from the "house" and sent out. Even more for bluntly speaking an uncomfortable point (that he adheres and supports FGMEMBERS)

I see what you are trying to say up there in the previous post, but in my view, No matter how you word certain things, those facts are not going to be accepted by the Inner-club of Curtis. Will they accept that Stuart is going off the line with his "moderator hat on?". Do you think it matters if you just politely express the concern (as in Skyboat and I =never answered= open letter that opens this thread) or blunty making a comparison on how such "lets ban for convenience" does remind us of very unfortunate historical facts, and it is, at least colorfully, sensitive of uncomfortable comparisons.
So, I say again, I don't think we can flag here a post saying: if Only JWocky expresses "elegantly" they would have heard. Because they did not hear Skyboat either.

So, that's that.

[Lydiot]

I see what you are trying to say up there in the previous post, but in my view, No matter how you word certain things, those facts are not going to be accepted by the Inner-club of Curtis. Will they accept that Stuart is going off the line with his "moderator hat on?". Do you think it matters if you just politely express the concern (as in Skyboat and I =never answered= open letter that opens this thread) or blunty making a comparison on how such "lets ban for convenience" does remind us of very unfortunate historical facts, and it is, at least colorfully, sensitive of uncomfortable comparisons.
So, I say again, I don't think we can flag here a post saying: if Only JWocky expresses "elegantly" they would have heard. Because they did not hear Skyboat either.

So, that's that.

I don't disagree with that, but this isn't all about a small group of people. If you think they will never ever change, then all of this, this thread and ANY commentary about them and what they do is inherently futile and a waste of time. Right!? So, I am simply proposing that this community is far bigger than the people on this forum and "the Inner-club of Curtis". There's everyone else as well. And that larger group of people will pay attention. Some will agree with what's said, some will disagree. If you can convince a large amount of general users that what you say makes sense then it will ultimately force the "inner-club" to deal with it. FG won't ever be just that club of, what, like 10 people?

So, while that smaller group never will change its mind regardless of how things are worded, the larger group outside of it isn't unimportant, and that's an audience it's counter-productive to alienate just so you can compare people to Nazis.

See my point?

[KL-666]

Not really, i am kind of completely missing the point. if Jwocky wants to call someone Eichmann, that is his thing. My thing is different. yet in the mean time here people can cooperate peacefully. And that can not be said of the other forum.

kind regards, Vincent