Responding to Wllbragg

[jwocky]

Well, nice and very optimistic, but here is the rub:

FGMEMBERS wants open and fast aircraft development, FGADDON eants gatekeepers and personal power security -> Incompatible
FGMEMBERS and Free Speech want free speech, Curtis forum wants to harrass and ban every opinion not sanctioned by the king -> incompatible
FREE SPEECH doesn't understand politcal bans as a justified method of leading a forum, Cirtus forum makes excessive use of political bans -> incompatible
FREE SPEECH, FGMEMBERS understand themselves as extensions of the FG world, Curtis and Hooray try to label us as hostile fork -> incompatible
FGMEMBERS wants the FG community to grow, Curtis forum has several times stressed, they take rather the worse solution and kill FGMEMBERS -> incompatible
In FGMEMBERS, we help users to become devs or testers or just to have fun, in Curtis and Hooray's world, users are "leeches" and shall shut up -> incompatible

Now we have the same drama with TerraGit
TerraGit wants to enable fast end effective scenery development, the Core wants to control scenery development -> incompatible
TerraGit gives user fast access to scenery, this is impossible with the methods claimed to be the only way by the core devs -> incompatible

And we have of course a cultural difference
If here someone lies, he is called out, if Mr T or Bugman lie the blue from the sky, Stuart ot Bug will ban and delete everything inconvenient said against their lies -> incompatible
Here users are the reason for our work and devs consider themselves also as users, over there, users are third class persons, not allowed to have an opinion -> incompatible
Here, the development principles are community based, over there, it's all about "owners" -> incompatible

So, I see right at this point not much we can talk about and there is no way till at least Stuart and Bugman are removed.

[IAHM-COL]

there is no way till at least Stuart and Bugman are removed.

I won't say "removed" from the community. (as Thorsten promoted and actively promotes of me). That's a big difference there.


But I definitely had made a call to have their "forum Moderator" badges, withdraw.
You can't moderate when your passion towards the issue is totally biased.

On second basis, (moving forward), as I noticed in "a respose to Curtis", it seems that they had intensified the label of "hostile fork" based upon a want- or desire to have the content in FGMEMBERS.
In spite that the content is there available, and open, and they can take whatever they want or need, the problem is the lack of a path, and the greater need to shoulder a massive work.

I know how to do it, fastly and efficiently.

So the question is... how much do they want it?

[bomber]

I don't how much clearer I can state my intentions...

Maybe by the medium of rhythm and dance?

[IAHM-COL]

it takes two to Tango!

[KL-666]

As you put it, Jwocky, there are huge differences. Yet it would still be a good idea for both sides to clearly state their mission in this discussion. So the others can asses how far they want to reach out.

Let's make this a bit clearer. Say that both sides state that they want to destroy the other. Then it is clear to both sides how much they want to reach out to be partly destroyed. I believe in reality the differences might be slightly less extreme.

kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

Oh great ...

then lets state my intentions ... prevent FGMEMBERS, TerraGit and this community from being destroyed.

Because otherwise, I give a shit whether they have the planes or not, whether they have the scenery or not ... FGMEMBERS and TerraGit have dleivered all I need on a button press already. Who need FGADDON? Not me ... not a user ... nobody. They need it as part of their gatekeeped community, I don't need to enter there. It's their problem, not mine. So, they want or they don't. And Israel has already stated what, a dozen times, if they want, he is willing to give it to them for the sake of the community. All they need is to ask him, how they get it. Which means, they have to lift his ban on the dev-list. Knowing that Israel is a much nicer personality than I am, I suspect, he wouldn't even let them make a kotau before giving them what ever they crave from our plane and scenery pool.

[IAHM-COL]

then lets state my intentions ... prevent FGMEMBERS, TerraGit and this community from being destroyed.

+1.
But more importantly, and here is the rub: I don't think they are really in a position of destroying us. So really, I am talking about "Acceptance" within the core. (which they are in a position to prevent, and had used all their influence to achieve)

And this means stopping telling collaborators not to collaborate with us.
And stop jumping the springs whenever someone points us as a mission interested in cooperative development.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic. ... 25#p285544

If, say, a modeler here in the FG forum asks where to submit a scenery model and someone points him to the FGMembers submission interface without mentioning the fact that the modeler is being pointed to the fork, I guess that's not exactly doing your thing at your infrastructure.

IH-COL

[KL-666]

Ok, so Jwocky wants his own working environment and it should not be attempted to be destroyed.

Iahm-col says it can not be destroyed. but this is not about what can be done, but about intention. I have not heard the other side yet, so i do not know their intention, or whether it involves destroying. Neither do i know if there is an intention to manipulate potential developers into staying away from fgmembers. There first has to come a statement of intent from them.

And btw, you guy's statements could have been more pro-active instead of stating what you do not want.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

Errr ... I think, you overestimate the level of my ambitions. I wait for an email to figure what kind of work around would be feasible for a pilot with yoke but no pedals, then I can hopefully finish the A310.
I want to grind out a little spare time to do more research on 737s
And I have intentions to tinker on the BBJ2 and the 747VVIP on JSB
I don't think any of those intentions are subject to anything, they want, can or dream to do over there.

[KL-666]

Still weird that someone is afraid to do something he wants, like sign up here, because he is afraid what his "friends" might say. Well Hooray, i do as i like, and i do not think a second about my so called friends. If they want to drop me, it is only for the best. Not really friends then, are they?

Kind regards, Vincent