Free Speech

[bomber]

Ok all valid points but I'll make one....

It is bogus to say "In 2 years time or more, once this community has matured we'll have moved towards a more democratic system" because history of internet forums is completely the opposite infact opinions become more entrenched as 'sides' are drawn with the vast majority of the community staying silent... Out of, as you're quite correct in saying a sense of wanting to just get on with their hobby...

Well tough shit buster because being a part of this community should come at a price.... and that's your participation in it's general health.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

I'm not saying lydiot is evil or anyone is for that matter, but if we encourage the vast majority to do nothing, but just pull up a deckchair open a few tinnies and start the bbq then you can expect more and more trolling... And frankly an attack on the health of this forum should be considered an attack on all and as such all should participate in repelling the attack... If you're not prepared to stand watch on the wall then FECK OFF because I don't see why anyone else should be asked to carry your load.

I'm sorry but as far as I see it people are making the same mistakes that other forums have made and the results will be exactly the same

If lydiots signature is an act of trolling, then get 2/3 of the community to vote on it....the 1/3 that doesn't are either ejected or given 2 more chances to vote in future trials, where if they don't they are ejected... and of the vote if the majority decision is it needs removing then remove it.

That's my radical suggestion.... not everyone will agree with it, how about we get 2/3 of the commununity to vote on it ?

Simon

[IAHM-COL]

Hear Hear! JWocky.

[KL-666]

I see there has been some additional talk already, yet i see also some still open qustoins. I'll try to answer them.

@bomber

I am never in the role of moderator, unless i say so, which luckily had to be done only once when called upon. All the time i have to discuss with as good as possible arguments like everyone else. So i did when i saw the permanent insult Lydiot had instated. Although my name is permanently green, please do not take away my right to argue like any other member. Hereby i specifically think of certain qualifications you give to me starting this thread. Where else should i as a member put my argument on something that is in every topic?

I see that several people disagree with my opinion that free speech equals free exchange of arguments and not free to insult. That is fine with me, arguments were exchanged, and we disagree.

But really Bomber, you do not contribute no shit to this topic, except some free smart-ass remarks that gets no one forward. How about getting positive and help this forum forward?

@KB7

When in the very seldom case the role of moderator has to be assumed, we do not act like moderators in the strict sense of the word. We do not make use of the powers we have to remove text or ban anyone. So there is really only one rule: Do not use those powers.

What do we do then? We analyze the situation brought forward to us. Then we write each of the parties a letter with advice on issues in which we think they can improve, so they can help themselves in not getting into the same clashes again. We write the letters in PM, to avoid giving anyone the feeling that they are made to shame publicly by the moderators,

After that we are done in the role of moderator. There is no further exchange behind the scenes about the "verdict".

Kind regards, Vincent

[bomber]

@bomber

I am never in the role of moderator, unless i say so, which luckily had to be done only once when called upon. All the time i have to discuss with as good as possible arguments like everyone else. So i did when i saw the permanent insult Lydiot had instated. Although my name is permanently green, please do not take away my right to argue like any other member. Hereby i specifically think of certain qualifications you give to me starting this thread. Where else should i as a member put my argument on something that is in every topic?

I see that several people disagree with my opinion that free speech equals free exchange of arguments and not free to insult. That is fine with me, arguments were exchanged, and we disagree.

But really Bomber, you do not contribute no shit to this topic, except some free smart-ass remarks that gets no one forward. How about getting positive and help this forum forward?

I'm sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it.... you can't have your name in green and be an ordinary poster... What makes you think you should be able to do this but that Bugman over on the other forum can't ?

YOU accepted the role and it should come with a price... of moderating... here you're instigating an argument.

You're not entitled to confuse people with a 'with my moderators hat on or off'..

But really Bomber, you do not contribute no shit to this topic, except some free smart-ass remarks that gets no one forward. How about getting positive and help this forum forward?

The only one aiming cheap shots is you... you're out of line with the instigation of this topic and I've voiced my opinion so... and you now accuse me of not being positive and not helping this forum forward, you wanna read my previous post before having a go at me.

@KB7

When in the very seldom case the role of moderator has to be assumed, we do not act like moderators in the strict sense of the word. We do not make use of the powers we have to remove text or ban anyone. So there is really only one rule: Do not use those powers.

What do we do then? We analyze the situation brought forward to us. Then we write each of the parties a letter with advice on issues in which we think they can improve, so they can help themselves in not getting into the same clashes again. We write the letters in PM, to avoid giving anyone the feeling that they are made to shame publicly by the moderators,

After that we are done in the role of moderator. There is no further exchange behind the scenes about the "verdict".

Kind regards, Vincent

You missed the bit out where if you then don't get your way you start a topic without revealing any of the previous behind closed doors debating and basically start an argument with one of the individuals involved...... and claim the moral high ground.

I thought this was a place where grown upc could debate flightsimming... When JWocky brought his complaint quietly forward he should have been told 'that if you live by the sword you die by the sword'...

Now as for the signature.... well if the community agrees it doesn't like that sort of thing.. then forceably remove it..
make it a forum rule to have no hitlerisms on this forum, from any party... owner, moderator, user.

It's not rocket science !

Simon

[KL-666]

Hello Bomber,

you can't have your name in green and be an ordinary poster

Yes i can, who are you to be on the moral high ground here?

What makes you think you should be able to do this but that Bugman over on the other forum can't

Who are you to tell me what i think?

YOU accepted the role and it should come with a price

Who are you sitting back in your comfy armchair, making easy shots about "price"? Others do the work here and pay the hosting so that you can make those easy shots about their integrity.

and basically start an argument with one of the individuals involved

Who are you to tell me about which topic i may say something and which not?

And no, you did not convince me that we should start "justice by the people".

Somehow i sense that you write from a kind of spite, maybe because you mix up other topics or other people with me.

Kind regards, Vincent

[valery]

Do you really have so much time to loose with this mess ?
@Lydiot: I think you're wrong for 2 reasons:
- 1st, any forum cannot be completely 'free-spoken', it's a matter of law. So, when a forum open a "freespeech" thread, it's a fake, it cannot really be, any publication on the internet must respect the law and must be moderated. It's a fact. Perhaps you disagree with this, so open your own forum and say what you want, you will be the only one responsible of what you say.
- 2cd: I don't know the whole story, perhaps it was some abuse from the forum's moderation like it seems to be, but you cannot threat someone like you do: sic "Der Fuhrer" (and please, fix it; we write der Führer in German). A führer is litteraly a leader, no more. But "Der Führer" is commonly associated with the leader of the "National Socialism" aka the Nazi Adolph H. during WW2. Naming somebody like this is really bad. It's not anecdotal. I'm always very sad to see this name coming back from time to time, as if it doesn't count for anything. It counts, as if you threat somebody a pedophile or something like. I'm really sad to see this fucking name here. You're a true asshole for this, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know who is reading this forum, you ignore the story of many European peoples as I am, you don't know what this name really means.

Finally, do you have time ? You know we are looking for good C++ programmers here ?! Come one with me, take an eye on Openscenegraph, on OSGEarth, on c++ multi-threading, on how to improve FG to do what we expect: if you like to "free-speech", you really can through programs, it's completely free to speech there.

Dear Lydiot, don't loose your time, take a break and make your life easier, and more free. Because writing so much on a nonsense issue is not being free.

no more "blabla",
B.R.
Val.

[bomber]

Hello Bomber,

you can't have your name in green and be an ordinary poster

Yes i can, who are you to be on the moral high ground here?

The one NOT starting an argument, go look at the name of the original poster on this topic.

What makes you think you should be able to do this but that Bugman over on the other forum can't

Who are you to tell me what i think?

YOU accepted the role and it should come with a price

Who are you sitting back in your comfy armchair, making easy shots about "price"? Others do the work here and pay the hosting so that you can make those easy shots about their integrity.

and basically start an argument with one of the individuals involved

Who are you to tell me about which topic i may say something and which not?

And no, you did not convince me that we should start "justice by the people".

History has shown this with people that are given power, they're very reluctant to let go of it.

Somehow i sense that you write from a kind of spite, maybe because you mix up other topics or other people with me.

Kind regards, Vincent

Or I could just be reacting to this topic... I mean we've never disagreed before, so why now ?
Could it be that seeing you turn into Stuart is something I find abhorrent, and as such I stand up against it ?

You talk about all the discussions in the background and the verdict being given and you communicating with the parties.... Do you imagine that this is not the same process that is carried out on the other forum.... A small group of people getting together to discuss the fate of an individual ?

Do you consider that not having the balls to ban someone makes you different ? somehow better than them ?

Eventually you'll delete posts, ban people.....

On your action of starting this topic we disagree.... and it has nothing to do with you, it could have been anyone in your chair, and I'd have reacted the same way.

If you wish to go down the same route as the other forum, where over time only those 'few' can only be really trusted to fully understand, then you're going to bloody good way about it.

YOU are out of order.... and this is the thin end of the wedge

[bomber]

I've often wondered

When your ase gets kicked by a bully it's human instinct to slink off into the corner and pretend it never happened... now when you kick a bullies ase you've no desire to let others forget that he existed and you kicked his ase and the next one that tries it get his ase kicked too.

So I wonder....

[bomber]

Maybe if people weren't so sensitive. ..



RIP Gorden Kaye

[Lydiot]

So you get to start an attack-thread on me because of my signature

Wait a minute, let's keep the order of things straight here.

1) Lydiot calls me Der Fuhrer in each and every post of his
2) I explain that name calling is not part of free speech
3) Lydiot starts spreading false assumptions about the functioning of the moderators group
4) I explain that the assumptions are false
5) Lydiot maintains spreading the false assumptions, and starts shouting "hypocrite" at me in almost every post

Spreading false assumptions even after having been explained that they are false is damaging and insulting in itself. Great, we have 3 counts of insulting now, when i do not count the repetition.

And now you want to accuse me of attacking you? You really lost it. What twist comes next?

Kind regards, Vincent

Vincent, YOU are the one saying it doesn't matter who does what first, YOU are the one saying that insulting or attacking others (even if you think it's "defense") is never appropriate. So, if YOU think so, then YOU shouldn't justify attacking me by pointing to what I said before you.

The only logical conclusion of this is that if your actions are justifiable based on what preceded them, then I am certainly justified in what I said based on what preceded that.

So it's either or Vincent.



PS: I did not call you Der Fuhrer. Learn how to read.