What is free software? by Richard Stallman

[MIG29pilot]

On the current circumnstances, given the proprietariness of Flightgear, OpenSouce is just an excuse to get free workmanship to build for the group of owners. Which is even a lower hit than more honest proprietary Software that at least employs his workers for a pay.

Give me one proof they "own" the project.

[MIG29pilot]

Also, you get the product for free.

[MIG29pilot]

And as far as "lack of extensibility" is concerned, perhaps you'd prefer every tom dick and harry with his virus getting into the project?

[IAHM-COL]

GOOD GOD!!!

You're the chap who posted rude and insulting posts all over the forum

I need specific links to your accusation, for evidence. Being rude is quite subjective matter, but insults, really are not.

So, I invite you to sustain such accusation. Take advantage of the forum posts that had not been deleted, and bring links on
(also, not a single word of the devel list is deleted and all of that is recorded, appropriately, so there you have more thousand words of helping your case.

I can give you an example; yesterday I was called unscrupulous and an asshole by two different people in the devel list, and I can give you the links:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.games.fli ... ocus=78972

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.games.fl ... evel/78947


I would actually say I refrain of going that low to replicate insults.

[IAHM-COL]

Also, you get the product for free.

do you mean "Free" as in "Gratis"? Because if that is the case, we are really not talking about the same animal here

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/floss-and-foss.en.html

[IAHM-COL]

And as far as "lack of extensibility" is concerned, perhaps you'd prefer every tom dick and harry with his virus getting into the project?

No. I don't think we are talking about malware here. If you want malware possibly attached to your software, then you probably would choose SourceForge for distributing it, but let that aside, just for helping you understand the concept, let me recommend the following doctoral dissertation in computer science over the concept of "extensibility" in Software development.

ftp://ftp.cs.washington.edu/pub/chambers/todd-thesis.pdf

[IAHM-COL]

Give me one proof they "own" the project.

Ownership of critical infrastructure and use of that infrastructure to carry private interests?
One of the evidences is looking you at the face. Care to see it?

[Omega]

MIG29pilot, before you continue, let us first look at your behavior and how it compares to your statements.
First and foremost, what has prompted you to suddenly register on this forum and falsely accuse its members? You are not a core developer nor an aircraft developer; therefore there is no way that IH-COL and JW have angered you any way.
How come you are calling people rude and insulting when quite ironically, you are referring to people as "schoolgirls" and telling them "to study English some more"?
So far you have been downright immature and racist on this forum, while others have politely accepted your criticism. For that reason, my understanding is that you are only here to start a fight, not to effectively contribute to the discussion. Thus It would be wise to take a step back and realize who is in the wrong here.

[MIG29pilot]

You are not a core developer nor an aircraft developer; therefore there is no way that IH-COL and JW have angered you any way.

That is thesort of attitude that puts the world where it is today: Rather than correcting what's wrong, you simply shrug it off since you haven't got any interest.

How come you are calling people rude and insulting when quite ironically, you are referring to people as "schoolgirls" and telling them "to study English some more"?

Because they are rude and insulting

So far you have been downright immature and racist on this forum,

Racist? What on earth...

while others have politely accepted your criticism.

That's nice, I admit. Most are either too stupid or too cocky.

For that reason, my understanding is that you are only here to start a fight, not to effectively contribute to the discussion.

Yes, to fight, if necessary, the truth into all these chaps

Thus It would be wise to take a step back and realize who is in the wrong here.

I did that a while ago. Have you?

@IAHM-COL This, of course, applies to both you and Jabber: Here's the evidence, some from you own forum

A bunch of self-declared wannabe-rulers know no other way to deal with two dissidents than by banning and thus by showing, FG is no free project.

Curt has more than ever proven to be a weak leader in any situation in which he is challenged and his only way to get out of it was to send out his little helpers to delete posts and ban people.

So, what happens now? Well, others who will dissident for this or that reason will face over there an increasing degree of political "prosecution". Bans, deleted posts, those are now the official consequences there if one shows a lack of hive thinking.

those who did the shameful actions are anyway beyond feeling it, I assume.

Jabberwocky

In "Back from Being banned":

BUT STUART, READ BEFORE ABUSING YOUR MODERATOR PRIVILEGES AGAIN FOR THE POLITICAL EXPEDIENCE:

[quote"Jabberwocky"]you and your little bunch of self-declared masters will accuse me of splitting the community (something actually you did when you abuse your moderator rights for the political goal and thus, forced my hand) [/quote]

that is a sick lie.

It smell propietary so heavily here!!

The very same people attacked, abused privileges in the mailing list and here and behaved entirely uncivilized down to the level of slander and libel.

Odd one that, that's like saying, "Those idiots called me an idiot"

And if someone tries to get all hostile on me, I will put off the kid's gloves at some point.

I don't think he ever had them on.

FGADDon operates on the basis of Aircraft maintainers. Thus, people that have a final saying on what can be modified and what cannot. Some of them can be extremely jealous of their artistic creations.

The fear of a few core developers that FGMEMBERS is foreseen as the official aircraft repository leads to continuous flaming wars in the forum, and some had even proposed that speak about FGMEMBERS should be forbidden for the alledged good of the community. The flaming war is all caused by their continuous antagonisms when other forum users (FGMEMBERS proponents and not) are trying to guide other users into how to benefit for this really awesome tool in the FG ecosystem.

none of us would be for political reasons even accepted as core committer if any of us would try.

That's just a propaganda trick born from a struggle that started on a technical level and then got too much psychology into it.

Now, after political bans and deletions of posts became the new reality of FlightGear, I am at a loss what even to suggest because one side refuses even to discuss the real technical level here with the killer argument "we are official, we silence you". So there is no room for any kind of compromise left as long as this attitude continues. Instead, the escalation on the "official" side has forced us now not only to run a repository and an organization but also a new forum to ensure, free speech is still possible. So how far will this go? Neither of us want to leave, neither of us want to "fork" FG and neither of us want to "kill FG", those are all just those emotion-making manipulative accusation thrown at us. We put a lot of time and effort in FG and we still do while we are under perpetual attack. Do you really think, we would do that if we would be already out of the door with one foot? Not even active harassment and open discrimination (for example the MPSERVER 12 trick against IAHM-COL) could make us leave. So how on Earth can you believe someone who says "you want to go anyway and make your own clone" just for propaganda reasons?

it is not moderating anymore but silencing for the political convenience

This is factually a lie.

Stuart, in another prove, he is not neutral as a moderator should be but a political helper, sketched out a highly unfair "manifesto" to be published in the next days on the website. I am not sure whether he or any of the other self-proclaimed "kings" can see in their blind hate still beyond anything but their wish to destroy FGMEMBERS

a dictatorship of a small ruling group and a bunch of people who are good for niothing else but to give some meaning to their project without any influence or even the right to utter an opinion. They would prove, that any form of contribution not connected to the core-devs is a crime punishable by banning, harassment and pursuit. I doubt, such a project would be eligible for "Sourceforge Project of the Month" or "Google Summer of Code" or similar events. Now, while nobody from FGMEMBERS will tell SourceForge about this juicy piece of self-destructive behavior, none of us can prevent, that, driven by pure hate into blindness, this manifesto won't appear on the website.

[quote="Jabberwocky"]I spoke my warning, now there is nothing left but to pray they don't go nuclear[quote]
More to come

[MIG29pilot]

You are not a core developer nor an aircraft developer; therefore there is no way that IH-COL and JW have angered you any way.

That is thesort of attitude that puts the world where it is today: Rather than correcting what's wrong, you simply shrug it off since you haven't got any interest.

How come you are calling people rude and insulting when quite ironically, you are referring to people as "schoolgirls" and telling them "to study English some more"?

Because they are rude and insulting

So far you have been downright immature and racist on this forum,

Racist? What on earth...

while others have politely accepted your criticism.

That's nice, I admit. Most are either too stupid or too cocky.

For that reason, my understanding is that you are only here to start a fight, not to effectively contribute to the discussion.

Yes, to fight, if necessary, the truth into all these chaps

Thus It would be wise to take a step back and realize who is in the wrong here.

I did that a while ago. Have you?

@IAHM-COL This, of course, applies to both you and Jabber: Here's the evidence, some from you own forum

A bunch of self-declared wannabe-rulers know no other way to deal with two dissidents than by banning and thus by showing, FG is no free project.

Curt has more than ever proven to be a weak leader in any situation in which he is challenged and his only way to get out of it was to send out his little helpers to delete posts and ban people.

So, what happens now? Well, others who will dissident for this or that reason will face over there an increasing degree of political "prosecution". Bans, deleted posts, those are now the official consequences there if one shows a lack of hive thinking.

those who did the shameful actions are anyway beyond feeling it, I assume.

Jabberwocky

In "Back from Being banned":

BUT STUART, READ BEFORE ABUSING YOUR MODERATOR PRIVILEGES AGAIN FOR THE POLITICAL EXPEDIENCE:

you and your little bunch of self-declared masters will accuse me of splitting the community (something actually you did when you abuse your moderator rights for the political goal and thus, forced my hand)

that is a sick lie.

It smell propietary so heavily here!!

The very same people attacked, abused privileges in the mailing list and here and behaved entirely uncivilized down to the level of slander and libel.

Odd one that, that's like saying, "Those idiots called me an idiot"

And if someone tries to get all hostile on me, I will put off the kid's gloves at some point.

I don't think he ever had them on.

FGADDon operates on the basis of Aircraft maintainers. Thus, people that have a final saying on what can be modified and what cannot. Some of them can be extremely jealous of their artistic creations.

The fear of a few core developers that FGMEMBERS is foreseen as the official aircraft repository leads to continuous flaming wars in the forum, and some had even proposed that speak about FGMEMBERS should be forbidden for the alledged good of the community. The flaming war is all caused by their continuous antagonisms when other forum users (FGMEMBERS proponents and not) are trying to guide other users into how to benefit for this really awesome tool in the FG ecosystem.

none of us would be for political reasons even accepted as core committer if any of us would try.

That's just a propaganda trick born from a struggle that started on a technical level and then got too much psychology into it.

Now, after political bans and deletions of posts became the new reality of FlightGear, I am at a loss what even to suggest because one side refuses even to discuss the real technical level here with the killer argument "we are official, we silence you". So there is no room for any kind of compromise left as long as this attitude continues. Instead, the escalation on the "official" side has forced us now not only to run a repository and an organization but also a new forum to ensure, free speech is still possible. So how far will this go? Neither of us want to leave, neither of us want to "fork" FG and neither of us want to "kill FG", those are all just those emotion-making manipulative accusation thrown at us. We put a lot of time and effort in FG and we still do while we are under perpetual attack. Do you really think, we would do that if we would be already out of the door with one foot? Not even active harassment and open discrimination (for example the MPSERVER 12 trick against IAHM-COL) could make us leave. So how on Earth can you believe someone who says "you want to go anyway and make your own clone" just for propaganda reasons?

it is not moderating anymore but silencing for the political convenience

This is factually a lie.

Stuart, in another prove, he is not neutral as a moderator should be but a political helper, sketched out a highly unfair "manifesto" to be published in the next days on the website. I am not sure whether he or any of the other self-proclaimed "kings" can see in their blind hate still beyond anything but their wish to destroy FGMEMBERS

a dictatorship of a small ruling group and a bunch of people who are good for niothing else but to give some meaning to their project without any influence or even the right to utter an opinion. They would prove, that any form of contribution not connected to the core-devs is a crime punishable by banning, harassment and pursuit. I doubt, such a project would be eligible for "Sourceforge Project of the Month" or "Google Summer of Code" or similar events. Now, while nobody from FGMEMBERS will tell SourceForge about this juicy piece of self-destructive behavior, none of us can prevent, that, driven by pure hate into blindness, this manifesto won't appear on the website.

I spoke my warning, now there is nothing left but to pray they don't go nuclear

More to come; I am only on page 4 of the Back from Being Banned topic and I haven't touched the mailing list.