Free Speech

[Lydiot]

Lydiot and Bomber, you get hereby a last chance to clear your statements and publicly to admit, that your accusations were baseless and only intended to get your some attention your craved so badly.

I am more than willing to admit that an accusation I made was baseless if it indeed was baseless.

Quote me making an accusation that was baseless, and I will admit to it being baseless.



We all know how this will work out though.

tick tock ...

Exactly. "tick tock" to the end of;

"Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!"



This is all your own fault JWocky. You got plenty of chances to change your views based on new data, or change your demeanor based on how people felt about it, and you failed on all accounts. Better then for you to put on the dictator hat..... I'm looking forward to the irony which will be epic.

[bomber]

So your accusations, we had suppressed your right to free speech in any form was blatant lie repeated over and over again.

Page 2

However the bottom line is you're a moderator.... this thread is an act of instigation which is at odds with your role here.

Page 3

I'm sorry but you can't have your cake and eat it.... you can't have your name in green and be an ordinary poster... What makes you think you should be able to do this but that Bugman over on the other forum can't ?

YOU accepted the role and it should come with a price... of moderating... here you're instigating an argument.

On your action of starting this topic we disagree.... and it has nothing to do with you, it could have been anyone in your chair, and I'd have reacted the same way.

Page 4

As you're a moderator I objected to the instigation nature of this topic... simple as that.... And I posted my objection.

YOU went looking for his response based upon your knowledge gained as a moderator that there was an issue between jwocky and Lydiot that had required some behind the curtains discussions between a select group following a complaint by jwocky.

You then claim you created this topic as an ordinary user of this forum being offended by his signature.... odd then that no one else had paid any attention to it, enough to be offended by it.... you're very observant.

You then as an ordinary user (not as a moderator) decided to start this topic to berate the individual, to tell him what he can and can't write, you instigated this argument. YET now you're saying I can't oppose your opinions.

Page 8

The thing is for me its not about Jwocky or Lydiot...

Vincent however as a moderator shouldn't have started this topic....

No one from here complained when I voiced the same opinions on the other other forum that bugman as a moderator shouldn't instigate an attack on me by quoting from here...

It's all about how a moderator should behave.....

I've acted no different here as there, my principles have remained the same.

Page 11

I've just voiced my opinion that a moderator shouldn't instigated an argument and that this thread was started with that in mind otherwise it would not have started in such a condescending tone and used a direct quote from Lydiot.

THIS is what I've repeated over and over again.... there's not a free speech word used in it...

Here on the other hand, mods and admins are hold to a high standard of ethics and that you can't follow that example doesn't mean it is wrong to do so.
So bottom line, your problems will not be solved by firing broadside after broadside at Vincent. Aside of the fact that he is immune (trust me, I tried to discuss politics with him, he is immune), it won't do anything.

Maybe I just expected a higher standard of ethics ?

[KL-666]

Hi Bomber,

You asked a sincere question, i hope, so i shall give a respectful answer. I mean not in the atmosphere we were in just now. You may not agree immediately, but try to understand things from another perspective too.

We disagree on what a moderator can and can not do. That is fine with me, and we can even have a good discussion about that. The problem is in the disrespect you added to stating that opinion. In there you make assumptions about what i think and what motivates me, which you really can not know. Just read back your own texts on this, and try to see where you make the assumptions, you really can not make.

Along the same lines you have painted a picture of the moderating team being evil. You only make assumptions on that, about things you do not know. Not that there is anything to know, because nothing has happened. But you refuse to read what we say about it, and only bang on about your beliefs being the truth.

Look, what is really important about discussing is to also listen, take in information on what you can not know (e.g. my mind). But in this thread, whatever anyone says, you bang on that your beliefs are correct.

I hope you understand what i try to convey here. It is meant to be helpful, not to be unkind. Read what has happened through these eyes, and try to understand that you banged on a bit too much about your beliefs being the truth. This is not a thing to be right or wrong about in some detailed quotes.

Another thing is that i am not sure whether Jwocky asked to modify existing posts. Personally i would not do that, but write a new post with new understandings.

Kind regards, Vincent

PS, after having seen your latest posts, quoting your greatest moments, i am not so sure you really want to understand anything. But i keep hope.

[SkyBoat]

@Lydiot--

First, I just went back and read over the PM you received from the other two admins and me and I reiterate, I am not going to discuss it further.

Second, I fly using the FG Tracker and Planner so I can keep track of my hours as well as use the multiplayer to fly with my friends. You have used it once under the callsign "Lydiot." At least, you were on Multi-Player in FG using "Lydiot" and tracked by the Tracker and Planner that one time. Perhaps you are just flying by yourself on your computer. Perhaps you fly using a different user name and are among us all the time. At any rate, you are not in the FlightGear community, which, itself, is quite cordial and welcoming of newcomers. If you are on multiplayer and hiding behind another callsign and flying with us all the time, you are going to have to explain that, man, along with your callsign, because it makes no sense.

As for the rest of your post, playing "tit-for-tat" is not my game.

[bomber]

You also claimed I did something wrong when I excused myself from a decision, I was party in and hinted over and over again,

Page 5

My suggestion that no one gives up power is valid.... Jwocky says he's not acted but took a step backwards and allowed his private little group to act on his behave.... does this not sound familiar ?

[But you could say it doesn't sound familiar because it's not the same as on Curtis forum]

This IS what you posted on
Page 2, 3 pages earlier

So, here are the options:

- we try to explain Lydiot once more the basic rules and every community has its rules, just to be clear about that. If that doesn't work, we have to discuss what we can do and, without having this discussed yet with the other mods or admins, if he has nothing to offers but more lies and twists, he forces us to use the last measure, means ban at some point because his actions are not aimed at a fiar discussion but only destruction.

- or the community as whole could of course stand to its responsibility for itself and maybe take a stand against someone who never contributes anything but all the time tries only for his own psychological needs throw stones into the gear and enjoys those grinding noises.

[you clearly separate out the 'we' and 'community' as be two different entities..... and the fact that there's been no discussion yet with the other mods or admins..... me thinks a Freudian slip

THIS IS ON PAGE 2 !

I don't know maybe your idea of giving up power and mine are different.... now how about those high standards of ethics ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it was a fake of some kind because "nobody steps away from a position of power"

Jwocky try and understand that at this moment in the conversation 'stepping away from power' had nothing to do with you or your actions, I was clearly talking to Vincent about the moderating process..

Page 1

suggestion... lets see this complaint 'in full' uncensored.... and this community will be the judge.

[btw a suggestion is something you do whilst have a civil conversation, it's not a demand or anything disrespectful.]

Vincents reply to this was.

Page 1

I have to disagree on this. I do not believe in "justice by the people". We have had too many witch hunts for that. No, i believe in protecting the privacy of the accused.

['privacy of the accused' from someone that started the topic by quoting the accused, let's talk about those high ethics again ?]

I replied to Vincent clearly about the moderation process, cause that's all we're talking about.
Page 2

And a person who doesn't accept the verdict of the people , their peers. Is in fact a dictator and as such can be compared to all other previous dictators going back to juleus cecsar.

I'm sorry Vincent that we seem to have differing opinions on this... I'm not in agreement with all that Lydiot writes now, in the past and most probably in the future.

But he didn't like my response

Who are you to tell me about which topic i may say something and which not?

And no, you did not convince me that we should start "justice by the people".

[just an ordinary user.... not as important as him it seems]

[bomber]

Vincent I'll respond to you once I've completed my answers to Jwocky.... take a seat.

[jwocky]

I NEVER asked anybody to change existing posts nor did I ever do that. So that subject is off the taqble. And Lydiot, we know, you will be unable to apologize for libel and slander you committed, so tick tock ...
The fun part is, now I am what you wanted me to be all along, using the button ... and nobody in the whole community is speaking up for you. You are both alone and too full of yourself to admit, this is what you sowed. Of course, now, after what you tried to paint for a loong long time wrongfully, Lydiot, is enforced by your perpetual outright criminal behavior (by all means, libel is technically a felony), you, the perpetrator, cries, your rights are limited ... that's not gonna pull it! One has to be a real Lydiot to think, it will.

[bomber]

I NEVER asked anybody to change existing posts nor did I ever do that.

Lydiot and Bomber, you get hereby a last chance to clear your statements and publicly to admit, that your accusations were baseless and only intended to get your some attention your craved so badly. This last period of leniency will last 72 hours, ending at 11:00am Central Time on Thursday, February 2nd, 2017. If I see till then neither an apology by you, nor any new input form the community that would make me reconsider (as I said now often enough, the community has a voice here, but if nobody speaks up for you), you are history.

What does 'clear your statements' mean ?

You could argue that it means I have to write a new, separate one, retracting what I said, but it's really not very clear.

Interesting that you called for a witch hunt against us, when that didn't occur you've now turned it so that if the community doesn't come to our (my) rescue I'm banned...

Simon

[KL-666]

No Bomber, redoing the discussion and trying to be smart is not going to do it. Try to be of good will for once, and try to understand that your beliefs are not truths but preconceptions. So you can not spread them as extensively as you did. Neither can i do such thing, so i do not. When you do such thing you really are slandering. Is that so hard to understand? Come on, get in touch with your decency again.

Kind regards, Vincent

[bomber]

preconceptions eh.....

Page 4

In short, Lydiot and Jwocky each got a letter from Israel, David and me with some advice how each of them can help themselves to avoid the big clashes between them. That is all to it. No lengthy behind the scenes debating or molesting of Lydiot, as he likes to make you believe.

Page 5

Oh come on.... you started a topic from knowledge gained via your position as a moderator. A topic in which you attempted to tell another user of this forum what he can and cannot write.

So clearly not a preconception and not a lie.....