Free Flight, Free Speech

KL-666 wrote:
AFAIK, OEV west is deprecated since they ditched the old ww2 props. So, i'm sorry chap, i'll have to come in east with my modern 777. Both rw's are accessible from that side, and a bit of x-wind has never hurt anyone. Actually, i doubt if you will ever get that kind of x-wind there, because it would be completely cross the valley embanked with high mountains.

And i certainly will not go through time consuming video making, for nothing interesting at all.

Kind regards, Vincent

Well, austro control [1] still publishes the charts for LOC DME WEST [2] so it certainly still exists.

Actually, i doubt if you will ever get that kind of x-wind there, because it would be completely cross the valley embanked with high mountains.

As for crosswinds, they are frequent enough and strong enough that austro control provides specific instructions for the conditions. [3] See 2.3.2, 2.9 and 3.1.2 (f). In the same document at 3.4 you can once again get the procedures for LOC DME WEST.

You can also watch some landings on youtube if you still don't believe that x-winds exist here

During FOEHN conditions (surface
wind 100°-180°, average windspeed 15-
25kt, gusts 30-50kt) severe turbulence
associated with horizontal windshears
and severe downdraughts at all altitudes.

So, in conclusion, of course if you set the weather nice and take the easy approach (with an easy plane) then LOWI is not much more challenging than a regular approach.

But if you take the hard approach (even without wind), it's quite challenging = it's a lot of fun, IMHO.

To each his own; whatever makes you happy

Kind Regards,
MD-GRK (Phil)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro_Control
[2] http://eaip.austrocontrol.at/lo/160527/ad_2_lowi.htm
[3] https://eaip.austrocontrol.at/lo/161208/PART_3/AD_2/PRI/AD_2_LOWI/LO_AD_2_LOWI_en.pdf

Okay, I had my An-124 (Ruslan-JSB) there yesterday. She flies quite nice, but she has still problems on the ground and a tendency to power-slides and donuts. And as of yet, no radio nav at all working and only a standard AP. So, technically, I can fly her manually and with my centipede gear, the grass looks pretty good to me (I cruised a bit on it after I actually landed on the runway). So, that's it. So, last minute decision whether I fly the big bird or my Jumbolino

themadgreek wrote:Well, austro control [1] still publishes the charts for LOC DME WEST [2] so it certainly still exists.

Could be, but it is only usable for slow props. Not even a 737 is allowed to do that approach, because of the narrow turn. The diameter of the turn is 0.9 mi. A 737 is designed for 25 degrees bank with flaps. Making a turn with a diameter of 0.9 mi at 25 degrees bank requires a speed of 120 kts. Unfortunately that is exactly the minimum max-flap (40) speed of the 737. This is not equal to maneuvering speed. Maneuvering speed is minimum flap speed * 1.3. So that should be somewhere around 160 kts. Ergo the turn with a radius of 0.9 mi is impossible for a 737.

A plane on that approach should have a minimum max-flap speed of 90 kts or less. Then they can still go to 120 kts for maneuvering speed. Probably the largest plane for that approach is a dc6.

Kind regards, Vincent

Junkers 290/390 went down to maneuvering speeds of about 70-80 knots if not entirely fully loaded, that is. But then, with full flaps, they had a touch down speed of only 35-40 knots

Speaking of that, I could turn the Antonov in the valley at 135 knots, but then, she can go 65 degree bank angle.

I thought you would mention the famous Jumbolino. That is a can-do everything craft What is it's minimum max-flap speed? Surely below 90 kts?

Kind regards, Vincent

KL-666 wrote:That is a can-do everything craft

It's already proven it does not fly great without fuel

Naah, empty, with full flaps, the Jumbolino needs still 100-110 knots. The Do-328 was known for doing such things and Antonov-148s, but then, they don't really count, the ABJ-version can take-off from a 4000ft frozen lake. Who needs runways in Russia?

And I found out why the An-124 wouldn't go to Insbruck and it has nothing to do with runway or approach ...

it's a parking space problem!

DIdn't expect anyone would bring that

Last lap in preparation for the World's Hardest Approach - 1

We are meeting this Saturday (December 24th) to fly Airliners to Innsbruck LOWI.

The following is the list of confirmed participants. Flight will be completed in the FlightGear regular servers.

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• Boeing 777 (SHM) : GIT* | Zip Snapshot
• Airbus A320 (IAHM-COL): GIT* | Zip Snapshot
• Boeing 737-300 (Keith): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• McDonnell Douglas MD-11 (it0uchp0ds): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• Antonov An-124 Ruslan (Jwocky): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• British Aerospace 146 (Jwocky*): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• Embraer ERJ 145 family (Lester*): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• Boeing C-32 (J-Mav16*): GIT* | ZIP Snapshot
• CRJ-700 (D-ECHO*): GIT | ZIP Snapshot

IMPORTANT NOTIFICATIONs:

* If you download the files with the zip snapshot listed above, rename the folder of the aircraft by removing the "-master", examples, after unzipping 777-master becomes 777
* The aircraft indicated with GIT* can also be obtained using git repository FGDATA Next generation with submodules. The branch in this event is currently the default branch being checkout by the repository. Just update the respective submodule if not done already


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Thanks Israel for the format

No problemas


You missed jwocky choices (it's ruslan and jumbolino)