USA TOUR Event | SAT DECEMBER 17TH 18:00 - 21:00 UTC

[KL-666]

Well, i am not going to spend any time anymore on your decoy methods. Anyone who likes to know the truth can watch the film himself.

Kind regards, Vincent

[IAHM-COL]

relax SHM

There are 2 paths: First, you dont want to visit Jomo anymore. and that's that.
Second. You do want to visit Jomo again. If that is the case, feel relaxed, jomo bans you for a session, not at perpetuity, so you have another chance to make a proper flight. Maybe jomo missed your replies, maybe you did not communicate (bilaterally). That's an ATC situation right there, since the whole simulation of ATC interaction is a communication-simmulation.
So there must be bilateral agreement of what each party is looking for: read back when in doubt. repeat if necessary, follow instructions, or reply --unable-- if unable.
If you are told circle, and you feasible can (ie you are not crashing in a mountain) do so. Then read back.

If you feel your atc is not acknowledging your messages, it most likely mean, he is not getting them. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat, until the message is clear. Voice is 1000 x better than text for all parties*footnote. Make radio checks if your atc does not reply.

SHM: AirIndia 454 Radio Check, inbound 5 miles expecting instructions.
(repeat that. you should get at least acknowledgment: I read you five by five)

If only that acknowledgment comes, then you know you are being heard. That's step 1 to keep a safe ATC interaction.

There's no point to go to an ATC to judge a request. It has happened to me... Not pleasant.

me (atcing): Turn Right 290.
pilot: Airport is at 090 --persist on heading
me: I repeat, turn Right 290 (pilot not doing it)
pilot: Why? airport is at 090!!!

Who cares. I am trying to organize a pattern and flow of traffic, and maybe avoiding collision. Who knows exactly what's going on in my mind, but a pilot is expected to follow if able, and communicate (if want to request something different).

I know, it could be kinda weird at times. but it is much worse when pilots are determined to their idea of how to get there, instead. That's literally being uncontrolled traffic in controlled airspace.

The rest, again, is your typical miscommunication.

____

* Footnote:
It happens to me too. Sometimes my eyes are too much in mumble and or radar screens with pilots I'm vectoring... to even see "texts" sent via FG text feature .
A Text only pilot falls in the high risk category of being unintentionally ignored.

[SHM]

I don't want to visit jomo again but that doesn't mean he is right.
From the transcript I wrote till now it is clear that he did shout which Vincent denied, He also took time to acknowledge, I said my intentions clearly repeatedly.

[SHM]

I see you added a consistent lie of yours to your post: Show the evidence of shouting, i have not seen it in the film.

41:00

[SHM]

Who cares. I am trying to organize a pattern and flow of traffic, and maybe avoiding collision. Who knows exactly what's going on in my mind, but a pilot is expected to follow if able, and communicate (if want to request something different).

Yeah in that case it would be ok. But the reason I was asked to circle was because he thought I can't descend down fast. And I immediately started descending to avoid the circle, but I was not on AP which meant I couldn't read back quickly (via chat).

I agree that such a situation wouldn't have of occurred if I used voice. And that is why when I flew to Geneva after this I used voice.

If you feel your atc is not acknowledging your messages, it most likely mean, he is not getting them. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat, until the message is clear.

I did exactly that as you can see from the transcript. And there wasn't a fault in what I did till then, then why the hell does he have to shout/become angry!

[KL-666]

41:00

No, there is no shouting in that minute either. I hear a person trying to speak in a clear voice. That is what people do when they can not make sense of a situation and think the other end does not hear too well.

If you are so oversenstive, you better always stay at home. If someone really starts shouting at you, you may wet your pants.

I consider your continuous repetition of this falsehood as cowardly framing an easy target.

Kind regards, Vincent

[SHM]

No, there is no shouting in that minute either. I hear a person trying to speak in a clear voice. That is what people do when they can not make sense of a situation and think the other end does not hear too well.

Well then its time to change your definition of shouting!

If you are so oversenstive, you better always stay at home. If someone really starts shouting at you, you may wet your pants.

Says the person who have been called an immature child. And I am thinking that is right now. Maybe you get shouted at too often because of your behaviour and you don't find it a new thing.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=838
That thread shows that I'm not the only one who thinks jomo is wrong.

And you've been banned from VATSIM (the professional ATC simulation), why should I really even care about you!

I'm not going to talk more about this and destroy my dignity like you. Maybe it suits your family to go down the level and abuse others but not mine.

[KL-666]

Says the person who have been called an immature child. And I am thinking that is right now.

Ah, you are with the people now who think that unfounded name calling is equal to freedom of speech. You do not think i take them serious for a second, do you? They are an unfortunate byproduct of an open forum where anyone can (mis)behave as he likes. Not much can be done about that, except trying to talk some sense into them.

That thread shows that I'm not the only one who thinks jomo is wrong.

There we have the non-argument of the century: "others say it too". When many people think it is right to lynch someone, that does not make it right. When many people claim the moon is blue, that does not make it true. You get yourself on a perilous journey when you stop thinking for yourself and blindly follow what many people do.

And you've been banned from VATSIM (the professional ATC simulation)

Irrelevant and not entirely correct. Btw. Funny that they call old mens game playing "professional".

Kind regards, Vincent

[oscar6662]

As my ATC mentor says ATC is there to assist the pilot never ever try to "fuck up" the pilot.

KL666: Irrelevant and not entirely correct.

If you were banned for that in my opinion Jomo should be banned with that criteria.

[IAHM-COL]

@SHM, @Vincent, @others interested

I am going to make a parentheses over the USA Tour thread to give my opinion about the last comments, mainly because I don't feel like its proper to open a "let's bash Jomo thread", Thus I will accept this non-sense to be self contained here.

@SM

I am very sorry my dear Friend SM. But you are, in my opinion, in the wrong here.
This is what you originally said:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=895&start=40#p17396

So Jomo decided to ignore me for absolutely no reason (see tomorrow's film ), when I flew the 777.

Well. After looking at the situation myself, and reading all of the comments that follow, my opinion is that this is not true at all.
Look, it is actually much simpler. Your behavior, if you've done it in a real life aviation situation, would probably grant you a world of trouble with the EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency). The Frankfort ATC in real life would probably would have been much more tuff and rude in RL, than what jomo did.

Simply put. He told you to circle. You did not. End of Story.

But the reason I was asked to circle was because he thought I can't descend down fast. And I immediately started descending to avoid the circle

The worst possible decision you could've taken as a pilot.

This is what happens. In aviation, and specifically under civil aviation authorities, Safety comes first. No one is flying within the "this plane can do this" of the flying envelopes. A plane can descend 5x faster than a given descend rate authorized. No one could question that. But it is the authorized rate, not the "this is capable" rate what applies.

If Frankfort center tells you to hold altitude and circle, or circle while descending YOU MUST do so. Speeding a descend to avoid circle is the ultimate non-sense. There are few reasons for you not to obey the instructed circle, that you must document in your defense on the possible situation that you are facing a loss of flying credentials for this misbehavior. One of those very few reasons is Imminent danger to the integrity of the flight if obeying. Like, no fuel on board. Engine failures, thus you dont have thrust to maneuver, obvious terrain, or stuff like that. <<I wanted to land there faster>> is not gonna safe your flying credentials if something like this happens in RL.

Now, Jomo did ignore you, but not

For absolutely no reason

, because clearly, you ignored him first.

Secondly

Well, yes, you can decide not to fly with Jomo again. That's fine. But I think you should start by chilling down and attempting to objectively evaluate the events, and understand you did play a role in the happening. In addition, as you already recognized, the lack of voice was also totally on your side, and we clarified this also contributed to the missing of crucial communication.

I deem best for you to wait a couple of days on this without further engaging in an unnecessary defense of events. You are in luck! This is FG, and as such you don't have your flying credentials at stake here.

About Jomo

I respect and appreciate Jomo a lot. For all he has given to this community. I've been in FG multiplayer short of 5 years now. And when I came in, I found a rather lonely MP environment, where a few players where attempting to keep it alive. Jomo, the Frankfort tower, being there, as the only standing man of the "Triangle". For these 5 years, Jomo has missed very few appointments to serve ATC on this aiport. And he does so at least 3 times a week like a clockwork. Can you briefly make the math of how many hours he's serve Franfort? His level of commitment is beyond what you and I can even begin imagining.

He has a personality trait. Who does not?!

Bottom line, many of us have actually made our way into FG and learn our first experiences in simulating controlled environments through his service, his website, and his videos.

So, I dont see why can't we be thankful of his?

Ah, you are with the people now who think that unfounded name calling is equal to freedom of speech. You do not think i take them serious for a second, do you? They are an unfortunate byproduct of an open forum where anyone can (mis)behave as he likes. Not much can be done about that, except trying to talk some sense into them.

I understand the frustation, but I kindly disagree.
I think SM is emotional about this, but I don't think SM tries to abuse freedom of speech.

More importantly, I defend that in our forum you can speak dissent. But not that for this we have a consequence of people (mis)behaving as they like. The important thing here comes from the fact that true liberty also reflects true responsibility (in the Sartrian sense). In other words, SM is aware that he is bound to the responsible action and responsible speech, and that as he expresses is a faithful reflection upon his abided "persona".

As a person (if we accept theory of mind), then we have to acknowledge that he can become emotive, and reactionary. And hopefully, can stand, recognize and apologize, as well.