About trenches

[bomber]

But I take it you agree that all that you writen, still doesn't give you any rights to second guess the actual authors intentions and complain.

[OPFOR77]

So history of licence violation can be brought up and used against FGMEMBERS.... but not against FGAddon?

How does that work ?

I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about current.

https://github.com/FGMEMBERS-NONGPL/Su-26M <-obviously a violation of copyright
https://github.com/FGMEMBERS-NONGPL/T-50 <- more along the lines of what we are discussing

@OPRF777

The problem is that law does not work that way.
You can not say under pressumption that I am doing something illegal.

I can, and have. I can't legally bring charges against you, but I can say your doing something illegal.

A court of law has to step in to demostrate it.

You pressume. And that's fine. It does not mean that to be true.

Take the case of the https://github.com/FGMEMBERS/GulfstreamG550 per example

Before XSaint clarified the work was GPL. you would have pressumed: IAHM-COL is distributing the work and it is illegal.

But is solely a pressumption.
Law works not under pressumption of guiltiness, but under pressumption of innocence.

That is. The real pressumption is that my distributing the Gulfstream is totally legal, unless XSaint (the copyright owner) proves the contrary to the court, and then the court does agree.

But what really happened.
XSaint step forward and say: Yeah, the work is really GPL.

was I before Illegally distributing a work that in reality is GPL? Off course not!

Likewise with other works, like that.


If you actually DO REVISE the law around licensing, and revise the documents: Many of them will strongly encourage you to declare the license. The reason is that ultimately declaring the license DOES protect your work for being intentionally or unintentionally used in ways you did not intend. Only a declared license provides the legal protection as required/desired by the author.

You want to believe this is a black/white argument. No. It is not. It is way more complicated than that.
And so far, All those "copyright infridgment" allegations are pure libel. It has never been declared (legally and under a court of law) that such thing ever has happened. So, dont' come tell me "You are guilty". I am NOT.

The mental gymnastics here are astounding. And you're definitely not a lawyer.

The definition of illegal is "something done contrary to the law". You're doing something contrary to the law, ergo you're doing something illegal. To say otherwise is self-deceptive.

It has nothing to do with whether or not your actions have been proved in a court of law. If that were the case, a cop could pull me over and see I have 50kg of coke in the seat next to me, but he couldn't do jack about it because "it hasn't been proven in the court of law that I have coke, so I haven't done anything illegal!"

You're doing something illegal. Stop. Simple as that.

[OPFOR77]

But I take it you agree that all that you writen, still doesn't give you any rights to second guess the actual authors intentions and complain.

The authors intentions don't matter! What does matter is what how the author has explicitly licensed his work.

[IAHM-COL]

So history of licence violation can be brought up and used against FGMEMBERS.... but not against FGAddon?

How does that work ?

I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about current.

https://github.com/FGMEMBERS-NONGPL/Su-26M <-obviously a violation of copyright

You pressume the Su-26M stands as a copyright violation. Well... According to Enrique Laso (Flying toaster) it does not.

Here , his response towards my request of clarification on this work:




So, there you are. Flying Toaster, opposed to your view that he is outraged and will sue, and demostrate I did something illegal, is recognizing that the license is actually GPL and this is just a pre-release.

I am standing by, giving him a few weeks he requested.

You pressumed that there was something illegal here. And that sufficed you to conclude IT WAS. That is your problem. But no mental gymnastic is necessary.

[jwocky]

Okay, and here I thought, if I write GPL in one of my works, everybody understands, it is intended to be taken, used, twisted, bent, improved, freshly painted and made stand on it's head as however any person who loads it likes. Those things are for fun! So, guys, at least as far as my work is concerned, please go and have fun with it. Even Bugman! He could really use a smile.

However, one remark for the wise: I forget sometimes to write any copyright notice in some of my files. It's a kind of "problem solved, next one" thing. Actually, I asked Israel in the special case of my stuff, if he sees those things, I forgot, to write a GPL notice in there. So if you see Israel changing some of my files from "no-license" to "GPL", it is because I ASKED HIM TO DO SO!
Any speculation from Bugman or any other of the moderators or other "office-holders" about this practice in reference to my work that is obviously intended to construct some case of "license scam" could be considered not "libel" or "slander" but actually as "wrongful pretense of a felony". This is a actually a class C felony in most US states and I know, there are similar laws in many European countries.
So, especially Bugman's repeated "construction attempts" may have left already, being a recurring pattern, the realm of misdemeanours and strived into the realm of the clearly criminal because he tries to pretend there heppened a felony, not once but in the meantime dozens of times. So, he maybe wants to tune it back a little before a DA gets involved?

*btw, I didn't know that either, but I had today a longer phone call with a DA about another kind of case and we talked about other things and he came suddenly up with that ... didn't know, he is also flying sims. But hey, it's a small world, isn't it?)

[OPFOR77]

Alright, I can see that I will get absolutely no where with you people, and you refuse to do things legally. I will no longer waste my breath talking to a brick wall.

[IAHM-COL]

I will no longer waste my breath talking to a brick wall.

Much fair.

Going back to Thorsten Stolen car analogy.
You are screaming: IH=COL stole JWOCKY's car.... call the police. Find the Law!

That's a pressumption.

JWocky steps forward and he says:

<No, the car really is GPL, I left the keys under a keyholder below the driver-side front tire, and let IH-COL know about the Key so he could take my pretty Benz for a ride>

If it's YOUR car. then off course, you could come forward and say that it was stolen.

Furthermore, from that on, you will need to do all the mental gymnastic necessary to prove it. You could be lying to get me in trouble, actually. And thus, you will need to bring the evidence forward. Not just the outrage.

[OPFOR77]

You could be lying to get me in trouble, actually.

Just to clarify something here, because it isn't apparent.

I use FGMEMBERS for my planes all the time. I have contributions in planes in FGMEMBERS via pull requests/merging, and I'm 100% okay with that. I'd rather that FGMEMBERS be super careful when it comes to copyright so that you don't get permabanned from github for hosting illegal content.

But, whatever. I'm not the admin. It's your decision to leave that content up, no matter what I think of it.

[IAHM-COL]

I understand that OPR77. I thank your support and contribution.

All I am trying to make clear is that I am proactively contacting the authors to know what to do with those works.

So far, every person that has replied, had kindly (read bodly Kindly) replied that the work is GPL. That it was their omission.

Dave culp, also Kindly, replied that the works were CC.

No- author has come saying that the work was not meant for being redistributed or modifyed under GPL or other Share Alike License.

Rest assure, this proactive verification is taken seriosly on my part to guarantee that we get to enjoy the advantages FGMEMBERS provides by creating a friendly, open and cooperative environment to share these works.

[IAHM-COL]

*btw, I didn't know that either, but I had today a longer phone call with a DA about another kind of case and we talked about other things and he came suddenly up with that ... didn't know, he is also flying sims. But hey, it's a small world, isn't it?)

Cool stuff....
Ask him to join us

IH-COL