Hound dog departed

[IAHM-COL]

No one is talking about dropping Nasal in one slip. (I seriously hope so)

If I read the bitten beaver correctly, and he has already clarified this at least once more in the Curtis' Forum Thread, the idea is to have nasal as being the only scripting language interpreted natively by the Software: Gone.

That is, at least to have the alternative option of using python instead of nasal from current and future developments.

Given the amount of support, and knowledge around coding in python nowadays, it seems to me to be a real good direction.
If I have a question on howto implement something in nasal I refer to a handful of experts in FG to get me out of trouble

(most of the time this is not happening)

Whereas python knowledge base is several orders of magnitude larger. Googling gets you there way fast, and the community of users that can support you is much more large.
Besides, the nasal language is rather awry (choppy, ugly), whereas python code has evolved elegantly, clear and almost intuitive.

So what is the big deal about keep nasal for now, and implement the additional function (without breaking nasal)?
Let the option exist.

That allowing python scripting is inherently insecure? I had not heard about such thing before... until FG core geniuses got me there. And I don't see it yet.

[KL-666]

Having a commonly known scripting language is always an advantage. Be it python, javascript or whatever.

The line of discussion should be:
1) Which language do we expect to be durable for the coming decades?
2) How are we going to implement it?

Putting the heels in the sand saying it is never going to work because we have to rewrite all nasal in all aircraft, is a wee bit simplistic way to say that you want to prevent moving to another scripting language for actually no reason except that you are afraid you are not able to learn another language. As i said before, nasal can coexist with the new scripting language so it can slowly phase out. What is so hard about understanding that? What is the game people are playing? Or are they really as stupid as they pretend to be?

Actually having seen some beginners mistakes in the core code, i start believing the latter is the case.

Kind regards, Vincent

[D-ECHO]

Well, who does the work? Who writes tons of aircraft nasal code new? You? The aircraft maintainers, of which almost the half are no longer here and the other half is maybe interested in getting could aircraft done, but not in helping switching the language and re-writing MBs of scripts for no direct advantage?

[IAHM-COL]

say what?
I never knew someone was supposed to be doing that!

[D-ECHO]

And? Would you?

[IAHM-COL]

why would I?

[D-ECHO]

If not you, who else?

[KL-666]

Hi D-echo,

I am sorry, but i forgot to spell out the last step for you, so i repeat the list of steps:

1) Which language do we expect to be durable for the coming decades?
2) How are we going to implement it?
3) Are we willing to implement it considering the findings in step 2).

You can not decide step 3) unless you went through the previous steps. What you are doing is preventing to go through the first steps at all by yelling in advance "Well, who does the work? Who writes tons of aircraft nasal code new?". The necessity to rewrite at once is an unfounded argument which can only be found out in step 2). Thus the question arises, why do you want to prevent going through the first steps so badly? Are you afraid that someone might find a relatively easy way to implement and migrate, and that step 3) is decided positive upon? Are you afraid of learning another language than nasal?

This not-can-do mentality vehemently blocking every form of thinking out of the box is a symptom of an organization in demise. I have never seen it as gross as in the thread on that other forum. First Thorsten tries to forbid thinking about it. When that fails, he and Bugman try to get rid of Beaver by making fun of him. And when that also fails they come with the killer argument that all nasal code must be rewritten at once. Which is an unfounded argument, and therefore false for now. Yet d-echo has no issue with whether something is true or false, and happily parrots the false argument around.

Edit:
Btw, it is good to see that at least one person on the other forum is not digging his heels in the sand, and has the open-mindedness to be willing to explore opportunities.

https://forum.flightgear.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=30606&start=30#p296259

Kind regards, Vincent

[bomber]

There are lots of ways to achieve what the OP is looking to achieve; sockets, logfiles, httpd. Years ago I wrote a Java library that would interface to the properties over some sort of socket to allow external control; this took me a few hours - it'd probably be just as easy in Python. So for me the language side isn't an issue. Nasal isn't exactly hard to learn at a basic level.

But the point being made by me and others is the total lack of this way of thinking... instead it's encouraged by a moderator and core developers to make fun of the idea, to criticise the knowledge of the individual and spread fear of change around the general community...

Thorsten and core developers continually put people off by saying "I'm not going to help, or modify 1000's of lines of code".. And I've had that thrpwn at me in the past... I've never wanted help, or anyone to write code I've simply wanted to be allowed to voice my opinions and gather support for an idea without having to battle against the establishment and have my reputation criticised.

I can't do that on FG forum because of the attitudes of the core developers.

I'm not saying I don't want my ideas challenged but I am saying it'd nice to feel that I could get a group of like minded individuals together and work together towards a goal, but momentum is a very fragile thing at the start of a concept and with the core devs bashing different ideas we're seeing little to no stuff coming down the pipe.

Finally; does anyone actually think that removing Nasal is a good idea in terms of modelling / models ?

If we're talking planes, then yes....

[Octal450]

No it's a bad idea. It will break every single plane. If they remove nasal. I'm leaving. I spent hours apon hours learning nasal, and creating advanced systems with it.