USA TOUR Event | SAT DECEMBER 17TH 18:00 - 21:00 UTC

[SHM]

I've send you a PM, as my reply.

If you feel like it, you can move all this nonsense to the other EDDF Triangle which is already there.

+1 Oscar (Certified S2 VATSIM controller)

[sanhozay]

Where does Jomo put his videos these days?

I looked here, but they stop at July 2016: http://www.emmerich-j.de/EDDF/Films/Films.html

[SkyBoat]

An underlying argument here seems to be FlightGear ATC versus VATSIM. I am aware that a number of people enjoy playing in both and that the rules for ATCing in VATSIM are significantly different that those of FlightGear.

But what I hear being argued is that the VATSIM game ATC rules are superior and therefore should be enforced in FlightGear. That is really an error in thinking. FlightGear and VATSIM are independent flight simulation games and as such the rules that govern one do not overlap the rules of the other.

The fact that they are a similar simulation environment is irrelevant. People who play VATSIM cannot impose its rules in FlightGear (and vice versa).

Having said that, VATSIM obviously provides a very high level of real life training for air traffic control. And a several FG players have used VATSIM to train for ATC in FlightGear, which in and of itself is perfectly all right. That is not at issue.

However, if you are trained in VATSIM and choose to ATC in FlightGear it is very bad form to (1) constantly mention that if this were VATSIM it would have to be done differently or the pilot would be in trouble; it's rude and breaks the concentration of the pilot and (2) you must be thoroughly informed about the FlightGear air traffic control rules because VATSIM rules do not apply to FlightGear. FlightGear pilots Fly by FlightGear rules. It is not an option for the person who is ATCing.

And if you are flying, as a VATSIM trained pilot, as Israel rightly points out, you are to follow the directions of the ATC regardless of whether or not they do it that way in VATSIM. And, as above, do not complain that in VATSIM it is done differently. It is just rude and uncalled for. And it is guaranteed Jomo will not control you according to the VATSIM rule book.

VATSIM is a proprietary game, so the vast majority of FlightGear pilots will never purchase and participate in it. It is vital for those who play VATSIM to abide by FlightGear's rules in the global simulation it provides and that we are constantly working on improving on your behalf.

Enjoy VATSIM when you are in VATSIM. Enjoy FlightGear when you are in FlightGear. But do not impose VATSIM on FlightGear. It is bad FlightGear etiquette..

[oscar6662]

When I am training in Vatsim Im not given VATSIM fraseology, Im given ICAO fraseology and USA atcs FAA fraseology and rules. So VATSIM standarts are REAL LIVE stndarts I hope we nealy reach them , I hope.
Ive never heard about an ATC FlightGear rules would lile to have a look at them.

[jwocky]

Just one short question about this: When the heck did you move Frankfurt/M to the US?

[KL-666]

Hi Sanhozay,

I put a link in this post. It seems to still work, despite issues on Jomo's site.

http://www.thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=895&start=50#p17439

Kind regards, Vincent

[SkyBoat]

Airspace class is a very complex global topic. Yes, the ICAO standards form the core of the international ATC rules, but they have been modified by 13 countries, including the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom and Germany.

VATSIM apparently is teaching the ATC standard for the United States (and perhaps Canada) and not for the other countries or the international standards. Please correct me, if I am misinformed. So, one cannot say that VATSIM is the gold standard for ATC in any flight simulator until they have instituted tutorials in the full ICAO International Standards plus certifications in all 13 countries that have special rules.

Here is the link to the Wikipedia article on Airspace Class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class

I am certain that Jomo is thoroughly familiar with Germany's airspace rules, since, if I am not mistaken, he is a licensed pilot living in Frankfurt, as well as his years of doing ATC for EDDF and the studying he has done to learn German Air Space rules. Therefore, no pilot in his airspace at EDDF really has any reason to presume an instruction from him is incorrect with respect to the real time situation or the German Air Space rules. And if he is yelling at somebody for not following instructions, it is your job as the pilot of your plane to remain calm and follow his instructions to you with professional precision. It is not your concern to intervene or correct Jomo. You are the pilot, not the ATC, even if VATSIM taught you to do it a different way. Fly your plane.

And if any of you think it is a fun sport to antagonize Jomo, to deliberately disrupt the traffic at EDDF, you will get no support from me (or any of the administrators) and if I catch wind of it, I will likely express my displeasure of your behavior here on the forum.

Here are just two links from Jomo's website on ATC:

http://www.stephan-schwab.com/airtravel/vfr-ifr.html

http://www.emmerich-j.de/HB/EN/Start.html

SkyBoat

[KL-666]

Just one short question about this: When the heck did you move Frankfurt/M to the US?

That happened when the senile old men playing vatsim decided the whole world says fl twohundred, where everyone knows in real life europeans say fl two-zero-zero.

Kind regards, Vincent

[SHM]

Just one short question about this: When the heck did you move Frankfurt/M to the US?

That happened when the senile old men playing vatsim decided the whole world says fl twohundred, where everyone knows in real life europeans say fl two-zero-zero.

Kind regards, Vincent

How about you go and find what is done become making false statements!

[SHM]

VATSIM is a proprietary game, so the vast majority of FlightGear pilots will never purchase and participate in it. It is vital for those who play VATSIM to abide by FlightGear's rules in the global simulation it provides and that we are constantly working on improving on your behalf.

VATSIM is free and it is just an addon to your flight simulator, not an entirely different flight simulator.