I don't know
The plane was operated by a Bolivian airline. It was just landing in Medellin.
The missed [soccer] match
Re: The missed [soccer] match
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
Re: The missed [soccer] match
Well, a RJ85 is an RJ85. The distance was longer than the FAA certified range to begin with. So ... what are we missing?
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!
Re: The missed [soccer] match
On the batteries i heard the following:
The airline has 3 aircraft, of which 2 are in the moth balls. The flying plane was pulled out of the moth balls not too long ago. It is said that batteries do not like to be unused for a long time. So it may very well be that the battery capacity may not have been too good.
Another oddity:
The aircraft was flown by one of the co-owners of the airline. This may very well have influenced decision making. More economical minded than safety minded.
Kind regards, Vincent
The airline has 3 aircraft, of which 2 are in the moth balls. The flying plane was pulled out of the moth balls not too long ago. It is said that batteries do not like to be unused for a long time. So it may very well be that the battery capacity may not have been too good.
Another oddity:
The aircraft was flown by one of the co-owners of the airline. This may very well have influenced decision making. More economical minded than safety minded.
Kind regards, Vincent
Re: The missed [soccer] match
FG Pilot (2011-2018)
Prepar3d (2015 - 2023)
MSFS2020 (2020 - )
Prepar3d (2015 - 2023)
MSFS2020 (2020 - )
Re: The missed [soccer] match
you beat me to it, SM
I was trying to translate myself, but you found it translated already.
Such a disparate situation. The pilot did keep asking for immediate assintance. He was given priority. Other planes aborted approach to give him clear runway. Still he did not make it.
I was trying to translate myself, but you found it translated already.
Such a disparate situation. The pilot did keep asking for immediate assintance. He was given priority. Other planes aborted approach to give him clear runway. Still he did not make it.
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
Re: The missed [soccer] match
Interesting, i hear nowhere on that tape an emergency declared. Requesting priority is nowhere near declaring an emergency. Yet the ATC treated the plane as if it had declared an emergency (when it said it had no fuel and electricity). Excellent job of the woman at the ATC, managing a couple of other planes at the same time. I am so sorry it not work out. Loosing a plane scars you for life in the ATC job.
Kind regards, Vincent
Kind regards, Vincent
Re: The missed [soccer] match
Okay, now it gets really weird ... I have to listen to this again ... but there are some thing, I noticed already ...
1.) The radio from 2933 is not weak. Normally, if batteries at an end, radios lose sending power. I have to look in the pecs whether some of the RJ85s have extra batteries for the radio, but it sounds pretty strong for a tertiary emergency mode battery system.
If this impression is correct, the electrical failure was caused by something else, not drained battery.
So, Vincent is right, batteries hate to be mothballed. Here is the rub: If you un-mothball (is that a waord) a Jumbolino, it's a very simple process, that baby is already kind of a flying mothball to start with. So you basically grab some batteries loaded and put them in. So, in a freshly un-mothballed Jumbolino, the batteries weren't mothballed with the plane. Which of course tells us nothing about the quality, of the batteries put in.
2.) The pilot doesn't sound stressed till the moment before he reports the total failure. He said earlier totally cool as a cucumber we need to land, we're on emergency fuel, but then, emergency fuel in a Jumbolino is still 30 minutes or so. Unless, you are already 28 on emergency fuel of course. Then you have only 2 minutes left, but then you are not that cool.
3.) A co-owner flew it, means, he was a business man and a pilot. So, I know, business people are always thre bad guys, but still, you know, planes are pricey, so for economical reasons, business people hate to lose them. And this one was both, pilot and businessman (or so I hope, the latter needs a closer look, he ran an airline with all planes moth balled, so he was maybe not a good businessman?). Normally, you get this save money on safety and training when the business layer in a company is already too far from the basic operation. Like when paperpushers run the show without even knowing for example why a plane flies to begin with.
Aside of all that, to make that flight, it was clear, he would get in on fumes. It is just the edge of what you can do with that bird. There are no more tnaks you can fill, all full already. That thing was fueled up to the lower lip so to speak to get there in the first place.
4.) I have to listen to it again, but in the end, I hear something, the plane was headed 360, due North. About 10 degree of course. Since it was before at 010, if I understood right, it means, the plane was pressed around to the left. Does anyone has the weather at the time? Here is the rub, the Jumbolinos are quite stable little thingies. If the AP goes off suddenly, due to electrical failure for example, they have no tendency to drop like stones or do crazy things, they level out more or less horizontal till someone moves the yoke. But what they do is, they swing into the wind easily. To make it 10 degrees in what, like 20 seconds or so, this must have been quite some wind. I get here more and more the impression, the weather was quite bad and not only over the airport but maybe already a bigger part of the way?
5.) We will know more, when the black boxes are analyzed, but I noticed, that the ATC gave instructions to descend to 17700 to someone and assumed, 2933 was at the same altitude, but the pilot comes back and says, they are already at 16,000 over the VOR. Did I get that right? It would indicate, the Jumbolino was doing a steep descend and given, how fast he moved horizontally, the flaps weren't out (nor was the butterfly butt). I have to time those messages and throw some numbers around, but it seems, he was trying to get down fast, even taking a harder landing into consideration already. Kind of a little unusual, but you can do it with that kind of plane.
6.) There was other traffic and if I understand it right, the ATC moved two planes out of the way while the #1 got clearance. That would make it the other plane in fuel problems?
Well, I will listen to it again, and then maybe some time more. There is something, I am missing, and of that, I am sure. Jumbolinos don't fall out of the sky like stones. They just don't. To do steep descend you have to push the yoke quite energetic forward. It's even mentioned in the owner's manual.
1.) The radio from 2933 is not weak. Normally, if batteries at an end, radios lose sending power. I have to look in the pecs whether some of the RJ85s have extra batteries for the radio, but it sounds pretty strong for a tertiary emergency mode battery system.
If this impression is correct, the electrical failure was caused by something else, not drained battery.
So, Vincent is right, batteries hate to be mothballed. Here is the rub: If you un-mothball (is that a waord) a Jumbolino, it's a very simple process, that baby is already kind of a flying mothball to start with. So you basically grab some batteries loaded and put them in. So, in a freshly un-mothballed Jumbolino, the batteries weren't mothballed with the plane. Which of course tells us nothing about the quality, of the batteries put in.
2.) The pilot doesn't sound stressed till the moment before he reports the total failure. He said earlier totally cool as a cucumber we need to land, we're on emergency fuel, but then, emergency fuel in a Jumbolino is still 30 minutes or so. Unless, you are already 28 on emergency fuel of course. Then you have only 2 minutes left, but then you are not that cool.
3.) A co-owner flew it, means, he was a business man and a pilot. So, I know, business people are always thre bad guys, but still, you know, planes are pricey, so for economical reasons, business people hate to lose them. And this one was both, pilot and businessman (or so I hope, the latter needs a closer look, he ran an airline with all planes moth balled, so he was maybe not a good businessman?). Normally, you get this save money on safety and training when the business layer in a company is already too far from the basic operation. Like when paperpushers run the show without even knowing for example why a plane flies to begin with.
Aside of all that, to make that flight, it was clear, he would get in on fumes. It is just the edge of what you can do with that bird. There are no more tnaks you can fill, all full already. That thing was fueled up to the lower lip so to speak to get there in the first place.
4.) I have to listen to it again, but in the end, I hear something, the plane was headed 360, due North. About 10 degree of course. Since it was before at 010, if I understood right, it means, the plane was pressed around to the left. Does anyone has the weather at the time? Here is the rub, the Jumbolinos are quite stable little thingies. If the AP goes off suddenly, due to electrical failure for example, they have no tendency to drop like stones or do crazy things, they level out more or less horizontal till someone moves the yoke. But what they do is, they swing into the wind easily. To make it 10 degrees in what, like 20 seconds or so, this must have been quite some wind. I get here more and more the impression, the weather was quite bad and not only over the airport but maybe already a bigger part of the way?
5.) We will know more, when the black boxes are analyzed, but I noticed, that the ATC gave instructions to descend to 17700 to someone and assumed, 2933 was at the same altitude, but the pilot comes back and says, they are already at 16,000 over the VOR. Did I get that right? It would indicate, the Jumbolino was doing a steep descend and given, how fast he moved horizontally, the flaps weren't out (nor was the butterfly butt). I have to time those messages and throw some numbers around, but it seems, he was trying to get down fast, even taking a harder landing into consideration already. Kind of a little unusual, but you can do it with that kind of plane.
6.) There was other traffic and if I understand it right, the ATC moved two planes out of the way while the #1 got clearance. That would make it the other plane in fuel problems?
Well, I will listen to it again, and then maybe some time more. There is something, I am missing, and of that, I am sure. Jumbolinos don't fall out of the sky like stones. They just don't. To do steep descend you have to push the yoke quite energetic forward. It's even mentioned in the owner's manual.
Free speech can never be achieved by dictatorial measures!
Re: The missed [soccer] match
About the descent:
That plane was in a position to easily glide to the airport. Yet it dived quite steep. Maybe that is due to the complete lack of instruments caused by the electricity problem? Or did they mistake the VOR for the ILS and dived at that? They came down quite close to that VOR.
Kind regards, Vincent
That plane was in a position to easily glide to the airport. Yet it dived quite steep. Maybe that is due to the complete lack of instruments caused by the electricity problem? Or did they mistake the VOR for the ILS and dived at that? They came down quite close to that VOR.
Kind regards, Vincent
Re: The missed [soccer] match
The Tribute to the Players of Chapecoense in Medellin
In the Stadium, same time as the match was scheduled to play
In the Stadium, same time as the match was scheduled to play
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
Re: The missed [soccer] match
The complete tribute:
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/IAHM-COL/gpg-pubkey/master/pubkey.asc
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
R.M.S.
If we gave everybody in the World free software today, but we failed to teach them about the four freedoms, five years from now, would they still have it?
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