EK521

[jwocky]

Okay, maybe a stupid question, but this plane was a 777, what other planes does that airline fly? The reason why I ask is, in Boeings, the AT and the AP are partially separated. The AT can work even if the AP is not operative. Or, in this case, obviously vice versa. How is that in Airbuses?

I agree here with Vincent, the go around without thrust was what happened. I still chew on why would a pilot do anything else but to push that throttle forward. I am as far away from being a professional trained pilot as one can be and even I, when I take off or have to go around and I want to climb and can't, push the throttle. It can be, I have already or still, depending on the situation AT on, but that's just one button to press. So to even get in that situation, I must forget at least two things. Unless, and here I follow again Vincent's logic, I am so drilled to trust a system that does always everything for me. I press the toga button, the plane goes around, but then, this would be also impliocate, I am used to a system that increases throttle to go around automatically. Another system than installed in a 777? Another brand of plane. So, in the critical situation, did that pilot maybe instinctively try to fly an Airbus while sitting in a 777?

If that would be the case, this would indicate a new level of danger spready by Airbus because more and more pilots have type clearance for planes of both types and the superficial training of Airbus pilots will maybe spill over into Boeing cockpits now?

[SHM]

Okay, maybe a stupid question, but this plane was a 777, what other planes does that airline fly? The reason why I ask is, in Boeings, the AT and the AP are partially separated. The AT can work even if the AP is not operative. Or, in this case, obviously vice versa. How is that in Airbuses?

Emirates have Airbus A380,A340,A330 and Boeing 777s.
So yes they're a more of an Airbus operator.

Yes the AT works even when the AP is off.
In Airbus the throttle controls look like this

In case of a GA, its simple you just push it all the way forward no buttons or anything.

[KL-666]

No i do not think Aibus-flying is an issue here. Pilot flying (captain) had some 5000/7000 hours on type and the co 1000/7000.

There are huge differences in training at airlines. Some train their pilots to always fly with one hand on the yoke and the other on the throttles. Even with autopilot on below xxxx feet. You can see that in many youtube films, and i believe it is the proper way.

Others teach their pilots to trust automation and go look outside or read checklists holding them with two hands. Such training schemes often also omit the instrument scan.

The second training type causes pilots to have no situational/state-of-the-plane awareness, so it takes them long to realize something is wrong (throttle idle)

This airline must be of the second training type. Putting it in the category i shall never board.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

I still can't wrap my head around it. There is this very basic instinct to push the throttle forward. So two pilots had to overcome their very basic instincts to make this crash happen. That is indicates a lot of explicit training to do the wrong thing. A lot, a lot of repeats.

[KL-666]

We do not understand how people can be like that, because we are enthusiasts, who try to train themselves the proper way.

Many pilots nowadays are not enthusiasts, but are in it for something else, money i guess. If they are unfortunate enough to get at an airline with bad training, they would not even know it. They never get (much) basic flying skills and automatic reactions, because they are forbidden to ever turn off automation and do a landing themselves. Same goes for their check rides. One can say that they have never actually flown.

There are so many cases with wrong throttle settings. Just think of Asiana at KSFO. What do you think happened in that cockpit when they heard ils is down? Sheer terror! Yet they hold face up and try to land anyway, having no clue about the relationship between speed and throttle setting. Auto-land has always handled that.

Kind regards Vincent

[IAHM-COL]

Those words Vincent make my stomach turn in wheels, and creates on me something I've never had: fear of flight.

[KL-666]

That would be the correct approach nowadays.

Kind regards, Vincent

[SHM]

lol.
Probably wont have to hear this "Is there a pilot on board, our pilots dont know to land manually"

[KL-666]

Or at least a simmer... please...

Kind regards, Vincent

[KL-666]

Now here is a blatant example of a pilot confessing that not all airlines are shaped the same in pilot training, i do not want to withhold from you. Exactly the stuff i am talking about: No training in extraordinary situations, not allowed to land manual on the line. Ultimately no flying skills at all.

The airlines are not going to tell you this. Neither the (N)TSB's or FAA's. They are much too cautious not to "insult" befriended nations. No, you have to get the truth from such pilot confessions and reading between the lines of accident investigations.

What company do you work for, fer fuggsake? Are you seriously telling us your Co does not train all engines out/glide approaches scenarios in the sim?

Indeed. After BA B777 & Sully both scenarios appeared in recurrency training for a few moments. 'Have a go' is not training. That was how many years ago? Not seen before and not since: and as short visuals are discouraged/forbidden on line the day to day handling skills are weak anyway. There are the enlightened airlines and there are those who will not see. It really is the luck of the draw who you fly for as a pilot and who the pax will rely upon on that once in a lifetime moment. Standards, above minimum for LPC, are not common across the industry; sadly.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/587574-jet-goes-down-its-way-medellin-colombia-36.html#post9600134

Enjoy your next flight....

Kind regards, Vincent