Creation or Evoloution? Big Bang or Big Belief -- which is it?

[LesterBoffo]

Merry Holidays to you all, a little levity from our friend Neil..

[Octal450]

You guys are all very smart, while I am very stupid when it comes to these things.

My answer: The Universe never began and never will end.

Why? Well they say that the universe is full of "nothing". Well, how can they call it a universe if it is nothing? I thought it did not exist? Has the meaning of the word nothing changed???

[legoboyvdlp]

If the universe does not exist, then why do we exist?
We are part of the universe.
Who says it is full of nothing?
It has no air, indeed, making it a vacuum. But there is something unknown there -- dark matter, I think they call it?

[legoboyvdlp]

Beyond the Hubble Volume. We know with some certainty that there's "more universe" out there beyond that boundary, though. Astronomers think space might be infinite, with "stuff" (energy, galaxies, etc.) distributed pretty much the same as it is in the observable universe. If it is, that has some seriously weird implications for what lies out there. Beyond the Hubble Volume you won't just find more, different planets. You will eventually find every possible thing. Read that again and let it sink in. Everything. If you go far enough, you'll find another solar system with an Earth identical in every way except that you had cereal for breakfast this morning instead of eggs. And another where you skipped breakfast. And one where you got up early and robbed a bank. In fact, cosmologists think that if you go far enough, you will find another Hubble Volume that is perfectly identical to ours. There's another version of you out there mirroring your every action 10 to the 10^188 meters away. That may seem unlikely, but then, infinity is awfully infinite.

Haha!

Hey, it0uchpods, so I wonder what our alternate selfs did this morning?

[Octal450]

If the universe does not exist, then why do we exist?
We are part of the universe.
Who says it is full of nothing?
It has no air, indeed, making it a vacuum. But there is something unknown there -- dark matter, I think they call it?

Well, how do we know there is something there? It could be nothing, or something that is nothing, or a thing that is not what it is which is fake. Uhh now I am confusing myself.

[Lydiot]

My answer: The Universe never began and never will end.

I believe that can be true, especially the first part.

Why? Well they say that the universe is full of "nothing". Well, how can they call it a universe if it is nothing? I thought it did not exist? Has the meaning of the word nothing changed???

You're jumping to the wrong conclusion it seems. If astrophysicists say "the universe is full of 'nothing'", then they probably don't mean that "it is nothing", they simply mean that most of the known volume of the universe is empty, void of especially matter (which we tend to consider being more "valuable" than energy, intuitively).

[Octal450]

My answer: The Universe never began and never will end.

I believe that can be true, especially the first part.

Yah.

Why? Well they say that the universe is full of "nothing". Well, how can they call it a universe if it is nothing? I thought it did not exist? Has the meaning of the word nothing changed???

You're jumping to the wrong conclusion it seems. If astrophysicists say "the universe is full of 'nothing'", then they probably don't mean that "it is nothing", they simply mean that most of the known volume of the universe is empty, void of especially matter (which we tend to consider being more "valuable" than energy, intuitively).

I think I understand slightly. But remember that we do not be know anything about space (not include the planets and thigns, just the void part). We cannot touch it, taste it, smell it, hear it, or see. (If you look, you just see emptyness.) We also cannot take part of its to Earth to study, so how do we have any infos on it? All we know is there is none to very little gravity (affecting us at least, planet orbits and other thing like that are there which are affected by the different type of gravity I think. But maybe I do be wrong, but regardless, still we cannot study it well right now, as we donot have interaction with it, so what is it? It still could be something that is nothing, or a thing that is not what it is which is fake.

Note: sorry if the grammer is rubbish in that, I had transltate from German, which was what I rote it in first)

[Lydiot]

I think I understand slightly. But remember that we do not be know anything about space (not include the planets and thigns, just the void part). We cannot touch it, taste it, smell it, hear it, or see. (If you look, you just see emptyness.) We also cannot take part of its to Earth to study, so how do we have any infos on it?

Well, the problem is partly the way you are expressing yourself. If you say that the only things we know something about are the planets and things, and then say we know nothing about space because there's nothing in it, then if we found something in space, that would then fall into the first category and no longer qualify. So your argument is a bit illogical and self-fulfilling. If we can define it, then it is "something". Since it is "something", it can't be space, because space we can't define, by definition.

But there's also the issue of making a logical conclusion based on other information. If we know the properties of a star and a planet, and they don't behave the way they are expected to, then the solution to why they behave the way they do must lie elsewhere, i.e. in space.

Again though, we're just back to having to define "space" and "nothing" and "something". The discussion can't be had without doing that.

All we know is there is none to very little gravity (affecting us at least, planet orbits and other thing like that are there which are affected by the different type of gravity I think. But maybe I do be wrong,

I think you are. There aren't different types of gravity. Gravity is what happens when matter interacts, for lack of a better expression. I just saw a good piece on it by PBS. I think it was this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tstyqz ... 686.196116

but regardless, still we cannot study it well right now, as we donot have interaction with it, so what is it? It still could be something that is nothing,

But surely you either have "something" or you have "nothing", right? So you can't have "something that is nothing". That to me doesn't make sense.

Note: sorry if the grammer is rubbish in that, I had transltate from German, which was what I rote it in first)

Du sprechst aber viel besser English als ich Deutch spreche.....

(close???)

[Octal450]

I think I understand slightly. But remember that we do not be know anything about space (not include the planets and thigns, just the void part). We cannot touch it, taste it, smell it, hear it, or see. (If you look, you just see emptyness.) We also cannot take part of its to Earth to study, so how do we have any infos on it?

Well, the problem is partly the way you are expressing yourself. If you say that the only things we know something about are the planets and things, and then say we know nothing about space because there's nothing in it, then if we found something in space, that would then fall into the first category and no longer qualify. So your argument is a bit illogical and self-fulfilling. If we can define it, then it is "something". Since it is "something", it can't be space, because space we can't define, by definition.

But there's also the issue of making a logical conclusion based on other information. If we know the properties of a star and a planet, and they don't behave the way they are expected to, then the solution to why they behave the way they do must lie elsewhere, i.e. in space.

Again though, we're just back to having to define "space" and "nothing" and "something". The discussion can't be had without doing that.

All we know is there is none to very little gravity (affecting us at least, planet orbits and other thing like that are there which are affected by the different type of gravity I think. But maybe I do be wrong,

I think you are. There aren't different types of gravity. Gravity is what happens when matter interacts, for lack of a better expression. I just saw a good piece on it by PBS. I think it was this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tstyqz ... 686.196116

but regardless, still we cannot study it well right now, as we donot have interaction with it, so what is it? It still could be something that is nothing,

But surely you either have "something" or you have "nothing", right? So you can't have "something that is nothing". That to me doesn't make sense.

Note: sorry if the grammer is rubbish in that, I had transltate from German, which was what I rote it in first)

Vielleicht ist es mein schlechtes Englisch, wiel ich weiß Schwerkraft ziemlich gut!
(Maybe it is my rubbish English, cause I do know gravity pretty nice)

Du sprechst aber viel besser English als ich Deutch spreche.....

(close???)

Nein, du sprichst gut Deutsch! Super!

[legoboyvdlp]

Ach, 411! Ich wusste nicht, dass Sie waren aus Deutschland.
Sie haben keinen nennenswerten Akzent im Mumble.
Sehr glücklich , jemanden zu haben mein Deutsch zu üben mit!