66 Dead: Egyptair Flight 804 Crashed Into the Mediterranean

[N3266G]

@KL-666

There is no thread of MS804 here in this forum.

[legoboyvdlp]

viewtopic.php?f=21&p=9293#p9293 and viewtopic.php?f=21&t=535&p=9101&hilit=MS804#p9101 (merged)

[jwocky]

We can see extreme motions if the radius of the turn is big enough. We can't see small motions because that is under the system granularity. But I would be really interested in a case, a secondary radar showed a 90 degree turn and the plane didn't turn. What I can imagine is, it was not 90 degrees but 85 or 95 degrees. I also wouldn't bet that a plane shown by a secondary radar at FL370 is exact 37,000ft high and not for example 36,992ft.

About the talk, you mixed up two different reports:
- They talked while the plane was in Greek Airspace
- two minutes later, the plane left and went into Egyptian air space
- again 1 minute later, the plane made the left turn and started to spiral (which given the gravity of the earth took a little bit more than 40s)
- during that time, the Greek ATC called the pilot and got no answer (now almost two minutes into Egyptian air space)

You could of course use what you know about flying ...

- of course, the pilot talked to the Greek ATCs when he entered Greek air space. By all means, he was just handed over "please contact blah on frequency blah, have a nice trip"

- of course, the ATC talked to the pilot also about two minutes before leaving his air space, by all means, he was about to hand him over.

That an ATC talks to you when you enter his control area doesn't mean he wouldn't talk to you later again. Maybe not that much in this case because it was quiet, there were no course or altitude changes, so there was no need. But when the plane was about to leave Greek air space and by that the control area of the Greek ATC, there was need, or at least something to say ... like "you're about to leave my air space, please contact my Egyptian Colleague on frequency whatever"

Now, here is the really interesting question though: On what frequency did the Greek ATC call the pilot when the jet was obviously in trouble. And what frequencies were set in the cockpit of the Airbus? Because technically, more than a minute into Egyptian air space, Com1 should have been set for the frequency of the Egyptian ATC. Which then again makes me wonder why the Egyptian ATC had no contact yet.

[IAHM-COL]

http://thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&p=9293#p9293 and http://thejabberwocky.net/viewtopic.php ... S804#p9101 (merged)

And merged again

[KL-666]

@Israel
It is already too late, the thread gets already funny. Now N3266G states in this thread:

There is no thread of MS804 here in this forum.

Maybe you should have left out the bits about there being another thread. Or maybe not, it is not a major problem.

@Jwocky
I did not want to say i am right and you are wrong, but to say that information is very unsure in these first stages.

@N3266G
ISIS claims every fart on this earth. I do not see any proof in that.

Kind regards, Vincent

[jwocky]

@Vincent: Any news information is to be taken with a grain of salt till you can compare it against things you know. I saw in the meantime for example where this story, the ATC talked to the pilot 45 minutes before only came from. CNN pointed one of those püicture with the Flightpath and the timeline and forgot to make a dot two minutes before the plane left the Greek air space.
However, you and I and most other people here know, that somewhere in this time frame, be it two minutes before leaving, be it 1 min 50 seconds, the ATC had to talk to the pilot because he was about to hand him over to Egypt. We know that, regardless what CNN messes up, we know that. CNN also doesn't mention, the jet had a clearance to take-off from Cahrles de Gaulle and still we know, he had. Pure magic, isn't it?

[jwocky]

And now, here is another nice thing to crack. The Aviation Herald claims, he got ACARS information from three different sources:

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT
no further ACARS messages were received

Now, smoke in the lavatory ... could be of course a bomb, but knowing my Egyptians, it could be also a smoker on withdrawal. If those messages are authentic to begin with, of course.
Now, what makes me scratch my head is 00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
What window are they talking? A window sensor would react if a window is opened (bad idea on FL370), broken (bad luck at FL370) or if the sensor is malfunctioning. Since there is 00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
this seems to indicate, the sensor was originally malfunctioning and was somehow reset. And right after that, there come two messages, first FLT FCU FAULT and then F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT as if the whole electronics went down somehow. So, just to get a hold of whether this is even possible, can a reset of a window sensor system kill the FCU?

[legoboyvdlp]

Improbable.
I'd probably bet on an explosive decompression, whether caused by bomb or window.

[HJ1an]

Anyway to determine which lavatory from those codes? And timeframe the codes throw out? It looks to me the front lavatory, near cockpit.

I am assuming of course, anti-ice R window R sliding refers to the cockpit windows. An explosion from there would be enough to take out, or damage the cockpit windows, takeout the pilot, produce lots of smoke lose control and bring up the rest of those error codes in that fashion as the plane breaks up from extreme Gs.

00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT

[KL-666]

Those acars seem to have been confirmed by BEA. To me they indicate a fire chewing away the systems in the rh-side of the cockpit. To avoid a decompression when the heat would chew through the skin, they may have started a rapid descent and mishandled it, either by getting control problems or getting incapacitated. Or by themselves, you know what bus pilots can be like. I heard that the boxes are located. Let them tell what happened.

Btw, the window sensors are temperature sensors to assist anti-ice and window heating to regulate themselves.

Cockpit fire through skin:


Kind regards, Vincent